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  <title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 26 Aug
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  <p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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  <h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>26 Aug 2009</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0070.html'>
  Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>Yves, Michael, Silvia, Davy, Raphael_(partial)</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Conrad, Thierry</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>Yves, Raphael</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>Davy</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">1. ADMIN</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">2. UC &amp; REQUIREMENTS</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">TEST CASES</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">ISSUES</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 26 August
    2009</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Regret+ Erik</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Regret+: Erik</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>nessy</cite>&gt; zakim: mute me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Scribe: Davy</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; scribenick:
    davy</p>

    <h3 id="item01">1. ADMIN</h3>

    <p class='phone'>accept minutes <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-mediafrag-minutes.html?">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/19-mediafrag-minutes.html?</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yves</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>minutes accepted</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> next WG gathering</p>

    <p class='phone'>physical F2F will not take place</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> I suggest a virtual
    meeting</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael to setup a doodle poll
    regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - raphael</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> rapha�l to setup a doodle poll
    regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - rapha�l</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; trackbot,
    status</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Rapha�l to setup a doodle poll
    regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - Rapha�l</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; Michael: I know
    of <a href="http://tinychat.com/">http://tinychat.com/</a> and
    <a href=
    "http://www.webex.com/">http://www.webex.com/</a></p><a name=
    "action04" id="action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphaël to setup a doodle poll
    regarding availability for virtual F2F telecon [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-100
    - Setup a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F
    telecon [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-09-02].</p>

    <h3 id="item02">2. UC &amp; REQUIREMENTS</h3>

    <p class='phone'>action-95?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-95 --
    Michael Hausenblas to review the new UC written by Silvia and
    check whether it will cover a mobile usage -- due 2009-08-19 --
    OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/95">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/95</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> what do others think
    about mobile UC?<br />
    ... we need browser builders, mobile world will be interested
    in fragments<br />
    ... will go through the use cases with my mobile glasses</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> regarding aspect
    ratio<br />
    ... if we want to keep this feature, we should have a
    motivation for it</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> I don't think it has
    anything to do with a fragment<br />
    ... should be removed</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> UC is not really targetted
    at browsers, example of setop box, where you don't have access
    to tools for fitting the video into the screen<br />
    ... will be more useful for the '?', not for fragments
    ('#')</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>

   <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> more generally, everything that requires transcoding might be available only under the ? scheme but not # (ie: sub-resources and not fragment)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to write a UC describing the use
    of aspect ratio feature [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-101
    - Write a UC describing the use of aspect ratio feature [on
    Yves Lafon - due 2009-09-02].</p>

    <h3 id="item03">TEST CASES</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> updated various
    TCs<br />
    ... and added 3 new TCs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; TC0008</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> we should talk with people
    from Google</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> if there was a standard,
    they would have used it<br />
    ... they will probably adopt our spec</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> should we add the
    minutes/seconds spec to our spec, even if this will
    overlap?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> we could add the youtube
    timespec and use it as default</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> we should discuss this on
    the mailinglist<br />
    ... regarding Jack's objection (<a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0013.html)">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0013.html)</a><br />

    ... time and space is always present in a video, while track or
    id will not always be available<br />
    ... reason for having two kinds of behaviour</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> don't see the
    advantage in returning the whole resource in case of a
    non-existing track or id</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> wiki version seems
    now right, different from the minutes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#item03">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/12-mediafrag-minutes.html#item03</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> TC0005 should return a
    200<br />
    ... same for TC0006<br />
    ... I agree with Yves, maybe we should change 'empty
    track/named segment' to 'undefined track/named segment'</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> we should write a
    small introduction with information regarding our
    terminology<br />
    ... 3 cases<br />
    ... empty, undefined, or non-existent</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> non-existent can only
    be verified by looking at the media</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; (run-time
    analysis)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> empty and undefined
    can be verified by looking at the URI</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yves</cite>&gt; TC for
    #xywh=1920,1200,1,1 for a 640x480 picture ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> there is no way to
    give an undefined space segment</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> because space and time are
    always present in a video</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yves</cite>&gt; TC for #t=20,30 for a
    10s video</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> what about partially
    existing?<br />
    ... we should have a TC for that</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> two additional
    cases: existing and partially existing</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yves</cite>&gt; use the numbers as a
    bitmask</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> tool support for TC
    organization?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; like <a href=
    "http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/">http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/</a></p>

    <h3 id="item04">ISSUES</h3>

    <p class='phone'>ISSUE-9?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ISSUE-9 -- Should
    we have the media type inside the Test Cases? -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mhausenblas:</cite> if we want to run a
    real test harness, we have to know the media type of the media
    used</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> wait until we have some
    reference implementations, then we will see format-specific
    issues</p>

    <p class='phone'>adjourned</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael to setup
  a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphaël to setup
  a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F telecon
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> rapha�l to setup
  a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Rapha�l to setup
  a doodle poll regarding availability for virtual F2F teleconf
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to write a
  UC describing the use of aspect ratio feature [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
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