11-swxg-minutes.html
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 11 Nov
2009</title>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>11 Nov 2009</h2>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>+39.011.228.aaaa, +1.785.583.aabb, MacTed, Adam,
tinkster, rreck, claudio, melvster, DKA, hhalpin,
+7.717.88.aacc, harry, ??P21</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>SV_MEETING_CHAIR</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Dan, Harry</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
2009-11-11T16:00-17:00GMT</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Report-back on Last week!</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">General Organization</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 11 November
2009</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> very quiet.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> staring Zakim</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> LOL</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> better</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Scribe: Dan</p>
<h3 id="item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
2009-11-11T16:00-17:00GMT</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> ScribeNick: DKA</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Starring Zakim as
Felicity de Montfort, wealthy heiress to a vast oil fortune...
but with a dark secret in her past.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to
approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 28st October 2009 as a true
record</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: approved
SWXG WG Weekly -- 28st October 2009 as a true record</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> There was
definitely some stuff chatted here.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> think rigo did some of
the rssagent stuff</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> My IRC client will
have logged them somewhere.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: to meet
again Wed. November 18th</p>
<h3 id="item02">Report-back on Last week!</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/03-swxg-irc">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/03-swxg-irc</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> scribenick:
hhalpin</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> was in shackles</p>
<p class='phone'>Tragically, Henry Story was detained by
immigration officials</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> never to return</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> he's back in europe now but
had to miss Social Web Camp<br />
... but nonetheless made a lot of progress last week.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> many thanks to DKA for
organizing the Social Web Camp</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> good sessions on Social Web
Camp<br />
... guy from Salmon Protocol</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (i joined 2 mins ago
but was off irc)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> talked about FOAF+SSL<br />
... quite a technical crowd<br />
... Linden Labs guy<br />
... good international crowd, Fabien<br />
... was very helpful.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> john panzer: <a href=
"http://www.abstractioneer.org/2009/10/salmon-protocol-introducing-salmon.html">
http://www.abstractioneer.org/2009/10/salmon-protocol-introducing-salmon.html</a></p><a name="action01"
id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to send notes to camp to Social
Web XG wiki and BarCamp.org [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-105
- Send notes to camp to Social Web XG wiki and BarCamp.org [on
Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-11-18].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> On Tuesday, we had a very
productive XG meeting.<br />
... TimBL participated most of the day on Tuesday<br />
... focus on use-cases<br />
... fleshed out provenance social networks and provenance<br />
... managing relationships<br />
... moving data<br />
... we added user-stories<br />
... take-down<br />
... pretty happy with work we have done</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (all sounds v fun,
sorry i couldn't make the trip)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> these stories differentiate
us quite a bit from other inputs<br />
... didn't get into architecture that much<br />
... did have some discussion around architecture<br />
... self-proclaimed piece of software<br />
... timbl would want us to think about it from a linked data
perspective<br />
... our use-cases determine social networks as we know them
today<br />
... but we can merge that with a linked data
approach.</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to write-up output of XG meeting
next Tuesday [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-106
- Write-up output of XG meeting next Tuesday [on Daniel
Appelquist - due 2009-11-18].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> can or should the
output of the camp be put on the eventbrite site? or on our w3c
wiki page?</p>
<p class='phone'>both I think!</p>
<p class='phone'>or at least linked.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> some back pages</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> All work done in wiki<br />
... panel went well<br />
... thanks to Adam, David, Fabien<br />
... David clarify why OWF and PortableContacts happening
outside W3C<br />
... W3C lots of talk about opening up, extending XG
process<br />
... lots of work there</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> tech plenary agenda
with link to slides: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/PlenaryAgenda">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/PlenaryAgenda</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> ian jacobs and other talked
to david after panel.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> are david's slides
around?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> david ended on a slide of
why Facebook should join W3C?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> i haven't seen them
out there danbri</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> reminded me of why Google
joined w3c</p>
<p class='phone'>I believe Facebook and W3C are in talks now re
joining.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> Kevin Marks talking about
OpenStack</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> interesting question
of whether to present it as a duty (for those that make
millions from the Web); vs a biz opportunity</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (or some awkward
combination of both)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> scribenick: DKA</p>
<h3 id="item03">General Organization</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/PlenaryAgenda">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/PlenaryAgenda</a>
- tech plenary agenda from last week - no link for David's
slides yet - I will ping Ian or someone...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribe: Dan</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> ScribeNick: DKA</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> next week open</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> 1+ "finish"
userstories</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> for
user-stories</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> We're getting to the point
where we can start writing the final report.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> i'll try to take a
look at final report structure, and with chasing up the widgets
stuff ...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i dont mind
helping</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> i think having
co-chairs edit is fine for an xg</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> so long as we push
other things to companion docs</p><a name="action03" id=
"action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> DKA to
summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread
knowledge of these efforts among W3C members. [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p><a name="action04"
id="action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Mischa to
describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how
they change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> at a lower level
zakim sucks</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Adam to
write up Matt Lee's talk [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p><a name="action06"
id="action06"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> mtuffied
to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these
technologies. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i just think zakim
could be a little more forgiving</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> [Introducing Elias
Bizannes from Data-Portability.org]<br />
... Can you introduce Data-Portability.org?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> move to agendum
25</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> move to agendum
24</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> The long-term goal is
putting the focus on policy, education.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> ScribeNick:
hhalpin</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Scribe: Harry</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> dataportability.org has
evolved into a user based organization<br />
... to standardize the language end-users see across social
networks<br />
... the form it would take<br />
... would be specific relationships with companies<br />
... that could then use EULA<br />
... so that the companies take specific committments<br />
... provided that, say, APIs are documented and in public<br />
... we understand that companies are in different
situations<br />
... that this will be most effective way of getting data
portability off the ground</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> it was very hard to
hear him</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> do you deal with
privacy? when are these done?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> We do care about
privacy<br />
... but we aren't dealing with the specific technologies</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> we have been discussing the
fact that people aren't reading licenses</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> so we're working on basic
rights<br />
... but it states what we think people are entitled to</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> related work
elsewhere: <a href=
"http://opensocialweb.org/2007/09/05/bill-of-rights/">http://opensocialweb.org/2007/09/05/bill-of-rights/</a>
(Authored by Joseph Smarr, Marc Canter, Robert Scoble, and
Michael Arrington) "A Bill of Rights for Users of the Social
Web"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.dataportability.org/">http://www.dataportability.org/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> basically helps user
understand the landscape of options<br />
... we want it to be machine readable using RDF</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> any connection to
jsmarr's work?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> we will consider it it's
good but we want something we can deploy more options, not just
one</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> not quite
everyone</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> :-)</p>
<p class='phone'>did I just drop?</p>
<p class='phone'>DKA, could you ask the question</p>
<p class='phone'>"How Can W3C Help a group like
DataPortability.org?"</p>
<p class='phone'>I'll be back in a sec...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Elias: Best think W3C
could do is to give some honest feedback on the work...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Elias: We want more
smart people....</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> good question</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> DKA: What's the
participation model?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Elias: The way the
project work is through task forces - work by consensus...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Elias: Off of IIW we
have 15 people who have shown interested in participation in
some way.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Elias: Best way to get
involved is to contact me. We need to take these drafts into a
more formal document..</p>
<p class='phone'>We need precise URIs to review the document,
or access to Google Docs of course.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> DKA: is there any
costs?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> DKA: If I wanted to
launch a SN tomorrow with the DP trustmark what do I need to
do?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Elias: We are a
Non-profit. The governance model of the project is voluntary
based with no membership fees. Fully transparent.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Elias: We don't need
money. We don't have an incentive to get a memebrship model
with fees.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Elias: In terms of
using the logo and the EULA work there will be no cost...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> very cool</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> scribenick:
hhalpin</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>UNKNOWN_SPEAKER:</cite> is there a
compliance mechanism?<br />
... how can transfer it easily?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> DKA: Is there a
compliance mechanism / GPL-like requirements on the use of the
logo / EULA?</p>
<p class='phone'>it's their incentive to do the truth</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> our branding is
minimized</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Elias: We have worried
about this - we don't want our brand to be misused.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> we just want the company
itself to do open disclosure</p>
<p class='phone'>no real final questions from me.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> do we have any specific
networks that are signed up?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> We've been hiding away,
not drawing attention to it.<br />
... we're had some dialogue<br />
... mostly informal</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> is the eula url
handy?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Elias:</cite> we have lots of
relationships with prominent vendors.<br />
... IIW wants to support our work<br />
... it will take a few years</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> <a href=
"http://wiki.dataportability.org/display/dpmain/EULA+and+ToS+template">
http://wiki.dataportability.org/display/dpmain/EULA+and+ToS+template</a></p>
<p class='phone'>happy to close call</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> we can harry is
talking but that is about it</p>
<p class='phone'>sorry, phone went flaky</p>
<p class='phone'>thanks Elias!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i wish i could have
heard a little better</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> bye all</p>
<p class='phone'>no problem with minutes!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> thanks all, bye
too</p>
<p class='phone'>no, it's not headset, it's a new ubuntu
install :(</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> lol ... should we take
up a collection for that ;)</p>
<p class='phone'>trackbot, end meeting</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to send notes
to camp to Social Web XG wiki and BarCamp.org [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to write-up
output of XG meeting next Tuesday [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Adam to write
up Matt Lee's talk [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to
summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread
knowledge of these efforts among W3C members. [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to
describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they
change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> mtuffied to
put up wiki page about social networks deploying these
technologies. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/11-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
<address>
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2009/11/17 19:39:44 $
</address>
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