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  <title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 20 May
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  <h1>- DRAFT -</h1>

  <h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>20 May 2009</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0029.html'>
  Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad,
      gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc,
      +081806143aadd</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Erik</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>Raphael</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>mhausenblas</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">ADMIN</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">UC &amp; REQUIREMENTS</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">SPECIFICATION</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">TEST CASES (Michael)</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item05">ISSUES</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item06">IMPLEMENTATION</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item07">AOB</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 20 May
    2009</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Previous:</cite> 2009-05-13 <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; Scribenick:
    mhausenblas</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; heh</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jackjansen</cite>&gt; on my way</p>

    <h3 id="item01">ADMIN</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> PROPOSED to accept the
    minutes of the 13 May 2009 telecon:</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> minutes approved</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-66</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-66?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-66 -- Jack
    Jansen to look at the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in
    Amsterdam on September 17-18 (just after IBC) -- due 2009-04-23
    -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/66">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/66</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-66</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-66 Look at
    the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in Amsterdam on
    September 17-18 (just after IBC) closed</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> what shall we do
    jackjansen?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> not so much in a
    hurry. after IBC things here in A'dam are normal again<br />
    ... that is we can wait a bit</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> so we can wait till end
    of June</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> silvia, we didn't
    pick the slot due to IBC in the first place<br />
    ... but we wanted to have somethin in 09/2009<br />
    ... other question. is any other place/time doable for the
    Aussies/SAfricans?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> alternative proposal was
    SAMT09, Graz, Austria</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> not sure if it makes
    sense to rehash that topic</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> we will ensure to have
    more virtual meetings as well<br />
    ... the September meeting is still an option<br />
    ... will be decided by end of June</p>

    <h3 id="item02">UC &amp; REQUIREMENTS</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> no progress so far, will
    be done ASAP</p>

    <h3 id="item03">SPECIFICATION</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_HTTP_Communication#Conrad.27s_proposal">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_HTTP_Communication#Conrad.27s_proposal</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>UA Server HTTP Communication
    (Conrad/Raphael)</p>

    <p class='phone'>conrad explains his proposal</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> question regarding
    Accept-Range-Refer is similar to the original proposal?<br />
    ... how is the conversion between sec and bytes done</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; bah</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; My first
    observation: Accept-Range-Refer ~= Accept-Ranges AND
    Range-refer ~= Range HTTP headers</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> same here</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; what I remember from
    Conrad proposal is : 1. clarification on the order of fallback
    mechanisms and 2. more verbose HTTP headers</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> 1. question is sec to
    bytes conversion</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> Server is authoritative
    re conversion</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> we should have a
    comparison of the three proposals on the table<br />
    ... and having Yves on board would certainly help</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> now we should focus on
    the # solution, move ? to the bottom</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> I think we should
    keep the two as it might help establishing backwards
    compatibility, right conrad?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> correct</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> ok, but we still need an
    overview table comparing the proposals<br />
    ... I also miss the number of roundtrips<br />
    ... seems always one, no?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> no, there are further
    requests</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-63?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-63 --
    Conrad Parker to update the Wiki with his more general approach
    with precisely the same examples -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/63">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/63</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> please give also a
    rational for it, esp. re the use cases you have in
    mind</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to provide some rational and
    use cases for his proposal [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-80
    - Provide some rationalee and use cases for his proposal [on
    Conrad Parker - due 2009-05-27].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jackjansen</cite>&gt; s/ups/oops</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jackjansen</cite>&gt; :-)</p>

    <p class='phone'>UA MF Resolution and Processing: (Michael)</p>

    <p class='phone'>work continues</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> so we continue to
    discuss via email</p>

    <h3 id="item04">TEST CASES (Michael)</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> we started to go through
    the TC last week</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jackjansen</cite>&gt; url?</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-79?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-79 --
    Michael Hausenblas to summarise the options for 4xx status code
    for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page -- due 2009-05-20 --
    OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/79">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/79</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-79</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-79
    Summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007
    in a Wiki page closed</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> see <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesDiscussion">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesDiscussion</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>PROPOSAL:</cite> In case an 'empty
    response' (such as found in TC0002-0006) occurs, the origin
    server MUST send an HTTP 416 status code if and only if the
    fragment range was given in an HTTP Range request header,
    otherwise a HTTP 406 status code MUST be send.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> beside not knowing of
    other usages of 416/406 ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> has it already been
    decided to be 4xx??</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> why not using
    204?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; I think range 20-10 is
    the same error as 0-0 if we specify that the start has to be
    smaller than the end</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Discussion about
    what *is* an empty fragment?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; 204: a valid
    fragment but no content</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; 4xx: an error,
    because the UA has nothing to present</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; yeah :-(</p><a name=
    "action02" id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to update the TC discussion
    page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-81
    - Update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask
    Yves's opinion on the list [on Michael Hausenblas - due
    2009-05-27].</p>

    <h3 id="item05">ISSUES</h3>

    <p class='phone'>ISSUE-3?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ISSUE-3 -- Does
    our MF URI syntax imply that we need to update MIME Type
    registrations? -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>ISSUE-4 ?</p>

    <p class='phone'>ISSUE-4?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ACTION-73?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-73 --
    Conrad Parker to change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just
    audio/video)? -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/73">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/73</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>conrad, re issue no. 4?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; ok</p>

    <p class='phone'>ISSUE-9?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ISSUE-9 -- Should
    we have the media type inside the Test Cases? -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9</a></p><a name="action03"
    id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to flesh out TC vocabulary re
    ISSUE-9 [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-82
    - Flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [on Michael Hausenblas -
    due 2009-05-27].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; issue-4: so i think
    we discussed not predefining lots of track names, but perhaps
    predefining "audio" and "video" only: in which case action 73
    would be to change issue 4 to "Should we predefine track names
    for audio and video"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ISSUE-4 Should we
    pre-define some track names? notes added</p>

    <h3 id="item06">IMPLEMENTATION</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> to push implementations
    we need the proposals a bit better discussed<br />
    ... all actions here continue</p>

    <h3 id="item07">AOB</h3>

    <p class='phone'>[adjourned]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; thanks, bye</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; thanks all</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> good idea</p>

    <p class='phone'>just send an email to the list with subject
    [MF-TC] or so proposing it</p>

    <p class='phone'>I'll add it to the Wiki then, ok?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; cool</p>

    <p class='phone'>ta</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to provide
  some rational and use cases for his proposal [recorded in
  <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">
  http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to flesh
  out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to update
  the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion
  on the list [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
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    $Date: 2009/05/20 12:51:02 $
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    <h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
    before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
    <pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/feedback/fallback/
Succeeded: s/rational/rationale/
Succeeded: s/rational/rationale/
FAILED: s/ups/oops/
Succeeded: s/decided/decided to be 4xx?/
Found ScribeNick: mhausenblas
Inferring Scribes: mhausenblas
Default Present: raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad, gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc, +081806143aadd
Present: raphael mhausenblas +0329331aaaa davy silvia conrad gui +20592aabb jackjansen +1.818.061.aacc +081806143aadd
Regrets: Erik
Agenda: <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0029.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0029.html</a>
Found Date: 20 May 2009
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: conrad michael

</pre>[End of <a href=
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