11-mediaann-minutes.html
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<title>media annotations WG -- 11 Nov 2008</title>
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<body><p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src="http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C"
border="0" height="48" width="72"/></a></p><h1>media annotations
WG</h1><h2>11 Nov 2008</h2><p><a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0048.html">
Agenda</a></p><p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-irc">IRC
log</a></p><h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2><div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>frank, veronique, dave, felix, joakim, pierre, ruben, werner, wonsuk, tobias, ericCarlson</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Daniel, Raphael, Thierry, Erik, Davy</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Felix</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>werner</dd>
</dl>
</div><h2>Contents</h2><ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Agenda review / approval of previous minutes</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Selection of scribe for next meeting.</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">Action items</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">New use case "Digital imaging lifecycle"</a></li>
<li><a href="#item06">New use case "life log"</a></li>
<li><a href="#item07">XMP review</a></li>
<li><a href="#item08">XMP Basic schema</a></li>
<li><a href="#item09">XMP Rights Management schema</a></li>
<li><a href="#item10">XMP Media Management schema</a></li>
<li><a href="#item11">XMP Basic Job Ticket schema</a></li>
<li><a href="#item12">XMP Paged-text schema</a></li>
<li><a href="#item13">XMP Dynamic Media schema</a></li>
<li><a href="#item14">Draft for Use cases and requirements document</a></li>
<li><a href="#item15">API/Ontology draft proposal</a></li>
</ol></li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul><hr/><div class="meeting"><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0048.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0048.html</a></p><h3
id="item01">Agenda review / approval of previous minutes</h3><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-mediaann-minutes.html"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/10/23-mediaann-minutes.html</a></p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-mediaann-minutes.html"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/10/24-mediaann-minutes.html</a></p><p class="phone">minutes
approved</p><h3 id="item02">Selection of scribe for next meeting.</h3><p class="phone"
>joakim</p><h3 id="item03">Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time</h3><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> see admin page
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/admin</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>dsinger</cite>> by the way, Eric Carlson is also here on the same line and IRC
with me</p><p class="phone">introduction eric carlson (Apple)</p><h3 id="item04">Action
items</h3><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-20</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-20 Add a link from WG page to the "still alive"
MMSEM wiki pages and to make sure that everybody can edit the pages closed</p><p
class="phone">action-20 done</p><p class="irc"><<cite>frank</cite>> hello everybody,
Veronique and I call in now (we share a phone)</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-21</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-21 Create a liaison to Geolocation WG closed</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> ACTION-22 Go back to Karen and check about " IPTV
metadata specification" - what is it, is it available for us? - pending</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-23</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-23 Explain XMLSPEC to wonsuk closed</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-24</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-24 Get CVS accounts for veronique and wonsuk
closed</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-25</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-25 Review XMP basic schema closed</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-26</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-26 Review XMP Dublin Core schema closed</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-27</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-27 Review XMP Rights Management schema closed</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-28</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-28 Review XMP Media Management schema closed</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-29</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-29 Tell Wonsuk to review XMP Basic Job Ticket schema
and Paged-Text schema closed</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close
ACTION-30</p><p class="irc"><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-30 Review XMP Dynamic Media
schema closed</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-31</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-31 Contact tom baker about dc liaison
closed</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> action-32 Make a liaison with MPEG
using information from the XP homepage - pending</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> action-33 Evaluate if contact to IPTV Japan is valuable -
pending</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> action-34 Contact Open IPTV forum -
pending</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-35</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-35 Check contacts to OMA closed</p><a
name="action01" id="action01"/>
<p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Felix to make a liaison with OMA [recorded in <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action01"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-36 - Make a liaison with OMA [on Felix
Sasaki - due 2008-11-18].</p><h3 id="item05">New use case "Digital imaging lifecycle"</h3><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0078.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0078.html</a></p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0000.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0000.html</a></p><p
class="phone"><cite>ruben:</cite> jpeg in process of defining metadata for digital image
lifecycle<br/> ... specific type of search/retrieval uc</p><p class="phone"
><cite>felix:</cite> keep use case and discuss in future call</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> or via mail</p><h3 id="item06">New use case "life
log"</h3><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0073.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Oct/0073.html</a></p><p
class="irc"><<cite>cgi-irc</cite>> maybe it can be an interesting use case for
checking how the interoperability across media can be achieved</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> veronique = cgi-irc</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>pchampin</cite>> +1 veronique</p><p class="phone"><cite>veronique:</cite>
consider in second stage of ontology dvelopment</p><h3 id="item07">XMP review</h3><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP</a></p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#Dublin_Core_schema">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#Dublin_Core_schema</a></p><p
class="phone"><cite>thierry:</cite> dublin core: everything could be adopted</p><p
class="phone"><cite>felix:</cite> some fields (eg data) quite general, might conflict with
fields from other standards</p><p class="phone"><cite>werner:</cite> +1, I think for most dc
fields we need to specify how we use them</p><p class="phone"><cite>ruben:</cite>
granularity of fields (eg name, more structured eg in mpeg-7)</p><p class="phone"
><cite>david:</cite> string is general, everything else might cause eg
internationalisation problems</p><p class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> it may be
solved, but it can be a tarpit</p><p class="phone">goal is to keep simple</p><p
class="phone"><cite>veronique:</cite> pointing to vocbulary (eg artist names)</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>pchampin</cite>> wouldn't that be interesting, nevertheless, to
allow the URI of another resource (possibly defined elswhere), insread of a plain
string?</p><p class="phone"><cite>felix:</cite> need to decide whether internationalistation
of names is an issue or we just map to simple strings</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>dsinger</cite>> it's intriguing to think that anything can be a value or a
URI</p><p class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> but what happens if I say "my name is"
"URI to jpeg image"</p><p class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> ?</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>pchampin</cite>> I was rather suggesting "the creator is (string|URI)"</p><p
class="phone"><cite>david:</cite> uri issues brings us back to foaf</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>pchampin</cite>> I'm not suggesting that we should embed the descrition of
that URI...</p><p class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> friend of a friend?</p><p
class="phone"><a href="http://www.foaf-project.org/">http://www.foaf-project.org/</a></p><p
class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> you mean? <<a
href="http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/%3E">http://xmlns.com/foaf/0.1/></a></p><p class="irc"
><<cite>frank</cite>> A string is not less ambigious than a URI (I could write name
= sjdhfqflf</p><p class="irc"><<cite>pchampin</cite>> I would say a string is *much
more* ambiguous</p><p class="phone"><cite>joakim:</cite> foaf is used in imdb</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>pchampin</cite>> But we can not assume every person to have a URI
with appropriate FOAF properties</p><p class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> in terms of
presentation, it's very clear; a URI ("gopher:" ?) is much less obviously presentable</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>js</cite>> foaf is used by linked movie database</p><p
class="phone"><cite>felix:</cite> string may be meaningful or not, additional uri (need to
ensure that uri points to suitable resource)</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>>
also a problem with "address" field</p><h3 id="item08">XMP Basic schema</h3><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_schema">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_schema</a></p><p
class="phone"><cite>felix:</cite> going through elements</p><h3 id="item09">XMP Rights
Management schema</h3><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Rights_Management_schema">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Rights_Management_schema</a></p><p
class="phone"><cite>dave:</cite> even simple copyright can become complex (eg composition of
media)<br/> ... simple copyright cannot be ignored</p><p class="phone"><cite>felix:</cite>
does that require to include properties into ontology</p><p class="phone"><cite>dave:</cite>
simple copyright, global to media</p><p class="irc"><<cite>frank</cite>> I thought we
had decided in the last f2f meeting that we simply go for one slot</p><p class="phone"
><cite>joakim:</cite> dynamic temporal metadata support (for real time apps)</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> I am tempted to say that ALL metadata is temporal,
but the first version only allows you to ask "right now" what is...?</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>dsinger</cite>> which covers a radio station where it varies by
song...</p><h3 id="item10">XMP Media Management schema</h3><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Media_Management_schema">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Media_Management_schema</a></p><p
class="phone"><cite>veronique:</cite> 3 levels: content - realisation -instance<br/> ...
still to be decided whether 3 or 1 level</p><p class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> yes,
use cases are essential: we'll never decide what we want if we don't know what we want it to
be useful for</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> Functional Requirements for
Bibliographic Records (FRBR) : <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRBR"
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FRBR</a></p><p class="phone"><cite>ruben:</cite> different
levels could simplify things (e.g. content description such as title vs tech metadata like
encoding)</p><p class="phone">+1 ruben</p><p class="irc"><<cite>cgi-irc</cite>> we can
also check out how many models go for 3 levels and how many go for 1</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>cgi-irc</cite>> VRA has also 3 levels</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>js</cite>> mpeg-7 has two</p><p class="irc"><<cite>pchampin</cite>> I'm
still not sure there should be a *constant* level of models...</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>cgi-irc</cite>> two is good enough</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>dsinger</cite>> what are the 3 levels? (sorry...)</p><p class="phone">content
- realisation -instance</p><p class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> thx</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>pchampin</cite>> what about the photo of a painting?</p><p class="phone"
><cite>felix:</cite> volunteers for looking at how standards handle this issue?</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>pchampin</cite>> or a movie making of?</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>rtous</cite>> I can do that</p><a name="action02" id="action02"/>
<p class="irc"><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> ruben to survey how other standards handle the issue of levels of
description [recorded in <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action02"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't find user - ruben</p><a name="action03"
id="action03"/>
<p class="irc"><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> rtous to survey how other standards handle the issue of levels of
description [recorded in <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action03"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>dsinger</cite>> well, basically "content: beethoiven's 5th; realisation:
berlin phil, 1962; instance: cassette tape from DG 1964"???</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>tobiasbuerger</cite>> who do these three levels relate to the levels defined
in FRBR (work-expression-manifestion-item)? content:==work, expression==realisation,
manifestation==instance; item is not existing?)</p><p class="irc"><<cite>js</cite>>
you can also look at the music ontology who has adopted the idea</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>tobiasbuerger</cite>> yes, the music ontology adapted FRBR I guess</p><h3
id="item11">XMP Basic Job Ticket schema</h3><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_Job_Ticket_schemaa">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Basic_Job_Ticket_schemaa</a></p><h3
id="item12">XMP Paged-text schema</h3><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Paged-text_schema">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Paged-text_schema</a></p><p
class="irc"><<cite>tobiasbuerger</cite>> I guess we do not need it in our current use
cases</p><p class="irc"><<cite>tobiasbuerger</cite>> (I meant the basic job ticket
information)</p><h3 id="item13">XMP Dynamic Media schema</h3><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Dynamic_Media_schema">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP#XMP_Dynamic_Media_schema</a></p><p
class="phone"><cite>joakim:</cite> many detailed technical aspects included</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> xmpDM:logComment User’s log comments.</p><p
class="phone"><cite>veronique:</cite> does this refer to tagging?</p><p class="phone"
><cite>felix:</cite> little information in xmp spec</p><p class="phone"
><cite>veronique:</cite> slot for tags needed - could this field by used?</p><p
class="phone">all to look at xmp reviews, discussion continues next week</p><h3 id="item14"
>Draft for Use cases and requirements document</h3><p class="phone"><cite>veronique:</cite>
more ideas/comments about general structure should be sent to list</p><a name="action04"
id="action04"/>
<p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Felix to write a mail about the general structure of the use cases
/ req document [recorded in <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action04"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-37 - Write a mail about the general
structure of the use cases / req document [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-11-18].</p><h3
id="item15">API/Ontology draft proposal</h3><p class="phone">all to review and comment</p><p
class="phone"><cite>felix:</cite> formal definition of ontology, complexity of api,
etc</p><p class="irc"><<cite>dsinger</cite>> thx, bye!</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>tobiasbuerger</cite>> bye</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>>
bye</p><p class="irc"><<cite>js</cite>> bye</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>frank</cite>> bye</p></div><h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary"
>Summary of Action Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Felix to make a liaison with OMA [recorded in <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action01"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br/>
<strong>[NEW]</strong>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Felix to write a mail about the general structure of the use cases /
req document [recorded in <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action04"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br/>
<strong>[NEW]</strong>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> rtous to survey how other standards handle the issue of levels of
description [recorded in <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action03"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br/>
<strong>[NEW]</strong>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> ruben to survey how other standards handle the issue of levels of
description [recorded in <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action02"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br/> <br/> [End of
minutes]<br/><hr/><address> Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a
href="http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm"> scribe.perl</a>
version 1.133 (<a href="http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br/> $Date:
2008/11/11 22:04:50 $ </address></body>
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