02-swxg-minutes.html
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
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<head>
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 02 Jun
2010</title>
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>02 Jun 2010</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jun/0000.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>+1.617.848.aaaa, +63.59.2.aabb, Janina_Sajka,
+0797094aacc, Michael_Cooper, +01510931aadd, +0774811aaee,
+1.781.416.aaff, Gregory_Rosmaita</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>hhalpin</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Dan</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Administrative Work</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Final Report Update</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">State of Social Web update</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">Danbri's Head [openid
developments]</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">michael cooper and others from
protocols & formats wg on accessibility on social
web</a></li>
<li><a href="#item06">Michael Cooper and others from
Protocol and Format WG on accessibility and the Social
Web</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 02 June
2010</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> on my way</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ??P26 is
hhalpin</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribe: Dan</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> ScribeNick: DKA</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Chair: Harry</p>
<h3 id="item01">Administrative Work</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to meet
again Wed. May 9th.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Propose to meet again M9
May</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Lalana Kagal and
people from the PrimeLife project</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> talking about
XACML, AIR, and policy languages in technical detail</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> This is important for
privacy topic. Distributed privacy.</p>
<p class='phone'>+1 to meeting again</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ACCEPTED: Meeting
Wed. May 9th</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> final report
discussion postponed?</p>
<h3 id="item02">Final Report Update</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Christine brought up that
we made an error - we need to talk about the final report.
Let's give this 10-15 minutes.<br />
... [on today's call]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> re openid etc
update, i don't need v long (there's not a lot to say really,
beyond it's all very complicated!)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> um, am not on the
call, is today's meeting about "Distributed privacy."?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReportElementsDiscussion">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReportElementsDiscussion</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> mischa, no today is
about OpenID, Connect, and accessibility issues</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> thanks hhalpin</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> this is what we
proposed before. Hasn't changed since May 19. Dan A. and I
spoke about it this morning and we assigned ourselves section.
My proposal is to attack the last section - on business
considerations.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Maybe give folks a
second to look at the various sections</p>
<p class='phone'>I've volunteered for the Intro initially...
Have started taking notes here: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Intro-fodder">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Intro-fodder</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> We would like others
to step up for specific sections.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ah
thanks</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to write Introduction [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-138
- Write Introduction [on Daniel Appelquist - due
2010-06-09].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> State of the social
web?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> harry, if you want
to do a skeleton, i can flesh it out</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> We felt it would be
beneficial to document how people are using the social web
today - and identity what remains in the highest state of flux
and what seems to be settling out. Puts the use cases and
technology material in context.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> Since I offered to do
a 'landscape picture' I would be happy to contribute to section
II or section IV depending on where people think it fits</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> OK, me and
melvster, I would like to use the Facebook privacy disaster as
a good launching place...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> so section II is
what is happening outside of the SWXG</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> it sets the context
for the rest of the report</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Social web use cases?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> they are not really
done, but....</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> probably as done as
they will get</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> First full draft by the
end of this month or next month... We need a solid thing to
review in August.</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> tpa and Melvster on part 2 State of
the Social Web in 2010 [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
find user - tpa</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Maybe short stories but
with some less detail...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> Yes - a summary and
then point to the wiki page.</p><a name="action03" id=
"action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> member:tpaanglade and member:Melvster
on part 2 State of the Social Web in 2010 [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, bad ACTION
syntax</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>> CTION: tanglade and
melvster on part 2 State of the Social Web in 2010</p>
<p class='phone'>That leaves the gap analysis -- Mischa you put
yourself forward for something?</p><a name="action04" id=
"action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> tpa to work on a summary extract of
the Social Web current use-cases for part 3 on wiki pages
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
find user - tpa</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> tanglade and melvster on part 2 State
of the Social Web in 2010 [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-139
- And melvster on part 2 State of the Social Web in 2010 [on
Tim Anglade - due 2010-06-09].</p><a name="action06" id=
"action06"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> tanglade to work on a summary extract
of the Social Web current use-cases for part 3 on wiki pages
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-140
- Work on a summary extract of the Social Web current use-cases
for part 3 on wiki pages [on Tim Anglade - due 2010-06-09].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (I'm not going to
volunteer for anything; I will try to write something and will
figure out which sections to offer it to once it exists)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> yup, fine</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> action me!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, bad ACTION
syntax</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> gap analysis is one
of the most important parts</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I will be happy to
be co-editor</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> mischa?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> hi</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> DKA: i am hear, but
not on the call</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> henry story?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> I am in airport</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> gap analysis ?</p>
<p class='phone'>mischat, let's discuss off-line...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ok</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> not sure what gap
analysis is</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> " Need to spend
most of our time in terms of creating new content"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> (sorry not been
paying attention)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> mischa - we'll
e-mail you off line</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ok</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> jumble in danbri's
head</p><a name="action07" id="action07"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Danbri to write what he thinks is an
adequate contribution [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-141
- Write what he thinks is an adequate contribution [on Dan
Brickley - due 2010-06-09].</p>
<h3 id="item03">State of Social Web update</h3>
<h3 id="item04">Danbri's Head [openid developments]</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> in the last few weeks
there has been a lot of activity on the openID lists. How this
breaks down in terms of groups and communities. OpenID was
created in 2005-2006. It's a non-profit foundation with
corporate membership.<br />
... they pushed out a new version of spec 2 years ago - still
has some issues. We've had some of those details from our guest
speakers.<br />
... there is a sibling technology called Oauth which has gone
into IETF. What's happened with both of these is that they've
incoporated X.509 certificates.<br />
... there are a 2 different ideas about where to go next.
openID next and openID connect - what openID connect does is
build it on top of Oauth.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ah there are
foaf+ssl people in the oauth incubator?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> the OpenID connect design
says "websites are already using Oauth" so why not [leverage]
this?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> thanks</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> for me</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> not entirely clear what
should happen next - openID foundation needs to decide to be a
"broad church" (both approaches) or focus. "connect" folks are
saying they'll go off and do openid connect whetever.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> danbri you said we
could help out</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> questions?</p>
<p class='phone'>I found that very helpful!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> is it worth
bothering, or is it easier to build some simple screen casts on
using WebId ?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> also : a broad momentum
around WebID from FOAF+SSL work - also a broad feeling that w3c
is interested in moving into the identity space.<br />
... it seems like things are finally maturing. Is it possible
that there could be a connection between oauth and
openid/oauth? What's the real difference between openid vnext
and openid connect?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ( for a screencast
on make and use webid <a href=
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iZPJBpI2Po">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iZPJBpI2Po</a>
)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> one of the problems with
vnext is that it doesn't really exist yet. There are some
working groups in openid foundation which have delivered
something but not moving very fast. People from social networks
side want it to move faster.<br />
... if they're going to do (openid connect) anyway - they will
probably do it in IETF. W3C might be a home as well.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> not my language</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> hope we can keep the
whole thing positive and friendly.</p>
<p class='phone'>+1 to positivism</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> maybe we could get a final
debrief? We should incorporate [the latest thinking] into the
final report...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> My view is that
openidId 1. (which I know) is good at covering holes that
foaf+ssl cannot reach due to browser limitations, but WebId is
more elegant. So they complement each other</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> oh i should also
mention, there is a User Expeience group being created at
OpenID Foundation - <a href=
"http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-user-experience/2010-June/date.html">
http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-user-experience/2010-June/date.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> that sounds
interesting to me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> (so it would help
me understand - especially on the oauth side)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> perhaps they could
make it v broad, encompass all openid, oauth and ssl-based
approaches?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> after 2 weeks' time, we
look at developments on webid, openid v. connect, and oauth.. .
then focus on report.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> can you run that
through again?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> we lost Michael?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes, though send it
to me by email if I need to do something, cause I did not quite
hear all of it</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> sounds good to me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ok i think that's
enough re openid and we have enough re next steps</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> +1 WebId
especially</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSAL: 3 more
invited talks after we finish up privacy work (Connect, v.Next,
and WebID updates)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I think we should
have 5 minutes at beginning of each meeting to go into progress
on the final report</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> those 3 could be on
the same call, hhalpin</p><a name="action08" id="action08"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to invite for latest
development talk Connect and WebID and v.Next [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-142
- Invite for latest development talk Connect and WebID and
v.Next [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-06-09].</p>
<h3 id="item05">michael cooper and others from protocols &
formats wg on accessibility on social web</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Social_Web">http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/Social_Web</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> maybe Peter StAndre
could come along too again, he is now leading IETF work in that
area</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> oedipus = Gregory
J. Rosmaita <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/User:Grosmai">http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/User:Grosmai</a>
- been part of W3C/WAI since before WAI was officially launched
to review HTML4/CSS2; blind user of speech output and keyboard
input only</p>
<h3 id="item06">Michael Cooper and others from Protocol and
Format WG on accessibility and the Social Web</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> this one of the areas
where w3c has historically had a lot to offer the web and we
could have a lot to offer the social web.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> I'm michael cooper -
staff contact for pf working group. We review other w3c
technologies for accessibility issues.<br />
... we're in a situation where we don't exactly know where all
the issues. We need to find out what each other knows. The more
we understand what the group is doing the more targeted advice
we can offer.<br />
... we also have janina who is chair of pf working group.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Janina:</cite> Already good learning
experience. Anything that has to do with UI immediately impacts
accessibility concerns because accessibility.<br />
... we also put a emphasis on semantic markup.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> here to listen,
learn and contribute - working on social networking site
targetted at blind/visually impaired based on OpenSocial</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Janina:</cite> more to be said around
all these topics.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Gregory:</cite> I'm here to listen learn
and contribute - my special interest is I've been working on a
social networking site targeted at visually impaired and blind
users.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> dka, do you do
accessibility on security?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> q</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> one obvious thing to do
would be to have wg members run questions about accessibility
by you... First question I have: if I have a technology - maybe
not a W3C standard - [e.g. a community standard] - is there a
single document of guidelines on accessibility that would be
useful?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> 2 things social web
site needs: ability to create WCAG 2.0 compliant content;
social networking site (as a tool) needs to conform to ATAG
2.0</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>janina:</cite> don't think there's a
specific document on the social web - a basic intro would be
useful.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20">http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20">http://www.w3.org/TR/ATAG20</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ( /me finds ancient
javascript rdf query demo (possibly not very accessible itself)
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/1999/11/11-WWWProposal/atagdemo">http://www.w3.org/1999/11/11-WWWProposal/atagdemo</a>
... queries authoring tool metadata )</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>janina:</cite> there are two resources
that are important to know about. W3C is one - and we are it on
accessibility - meanwhile what is happening in regulatory space
(US, UK, EU, Japan, Australia...) they are looking at
accessible technologies when they deploy something on the
Web.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/">http://www.w3.org/WAI/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>janina:</cite> e.g. in section 508.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/">http://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>janina:</cite> (U.S. regulatory)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MichaelC</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/gettingstarted/">Introduction to
accessibility</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> That is not maintained
by the PF wg - intended more for web content authors. Essential
components of web accessibility could be useful. Describes how
different tools need to work together.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MichaelC</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/components.php">Essential
components</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MichaelC</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/intro/people-use-web">How PWD use
Web</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> on U.S. Section 508
check <a href=
"http://access-board.gov/508.htm">http://access-board.gov/508.htm</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MichaelC</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xag">XML Accessibility Guidelines</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> "introduction to how
people with disabilities use the web" could also be useful.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MichaelC</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/">PFWG home page</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> XML document is a
little outdated but there is good information on what to do
when developing a format...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> oedipus, did you
look any deeper into Google's OpenSocial work? (and Apache
Shindig) - it's pretty .js-heavy...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>>
lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> in terms of how to
communicate with us. We have a mailing list.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MichaelC</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/">XTech
list</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> danbri, that's been
one of the holdups on implementation -- need more ARIA support
from ATs and UAs</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg-comments</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> Another possibility -
approach PF working group more formally with email to Janina or
myself.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (feb 2008 msg on
OpenSocial btw, <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Feb/0004.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech/2008Feb/0004.html</a>
)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> for reference:
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CAPTCHA_v2">http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/CAPTCHA_v2</a>
(there is NO accessible captcha)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Janina:</cite> there are several ways
this comes up. On OpenID (and like) there is a wish-list in
terms of Accessibility. There is a desire to explore "can this
system communicate preferences on preferred working
environment?")</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> Identity is core to
the social web, since if you do not know who you are dealing
with, there can only be 2 agents for the server: me and them.
To distinguish people you need to knowing who someone is.
Currently there is this problem, is that browsers do not show
what identity one has when logged in. It's extremely simple
thing to fix. Is this something that could be part of
accessibility? Just wondering if you could check that out.
<a href=
"http://code.google.com/p/">http://code.google.com/p/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> Another idea one
could add foaf ontology to describe disabilities, so that UIs
could use it.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Janina:</cite> we need to explore
further.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> bblfish, a FOAF
ontology to describe not disabilities, but specific combos of
assistive technology, is something i would like to explore
further</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> bblfish, problem
with breakdown by disability is that not all blind users
know/use braille so a refreshable braille display user has a
different experience than an audio-only user</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> we could articulate
accessibility gap on current social web standards (e.g. openID)
in the xg report.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> we could do this in the
gap analysis. Also, I'm not sure what the accessibility state
of the social web is.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> also part of privacy
part; ensuring sites treat such info with appropriate
respect/care</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> thanks, oedipus.
Interesting things to look into</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.accessibletwitter.com">http://www.accessibletwitter.com</a>
- interesting implementation of Twitter API</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> that would be useful for
the report.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> bblfish, my eddress
is oedipus@hicom.net</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/">http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/">http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/aria-practices/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> has ARIA had
take-up in current social web sites?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> which sites are not
accessible, and how?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> social web sites tend
to have more complex designs [using ajax, etc..] PF working
group is working on ARIA to patch that hole. Sites adopting
ARIA could be an accessibility solution there. Some things
intrinsic to the social networking aspect.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Any issues with
uniformity of accessibility across sites?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> one clear
useability issue is identity :-)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> twitter
accessibility depends upon the client -- native web based
twitter poor, hence need for AccessibleTwitter or Qwitter
(<a href=
"http://www.qwitter-client.net/)">http://www.qwitter-client.net/)</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> hmm....have any of
the distributed social networking software (GNU Social,
diaspora, etc.) taken accessibility on board?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> in some sites, there is
a big authoring challenge. If user posts a photo and the site
doesn't allow/promopt for them to provide alternative text then
hat content will be inaccessibile.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> +1 to case
studies</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> a case study of
facebook would be great</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> there is a GNU
accessibility pledge: <a href=
"http://www.gnu.org/accessibility/">http://www.gnu.org/accessibility/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> it might be useful to
do some joint case studies. In addition, the authoring tool
accessibility guidelines may provide a good starting point.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> GNU Social is
moving fast, but haven't been tracking as well as should be -
anyone tracking it?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>janina:</cite> I like the idea of you
addressing accessibility in your report.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> GJR will email GNU
accessibility leader, Chris Hofstadter, to find out how much he
is involved in GNU Social</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>janina:</cite> as already mentioned, for
a technology to become ubiquitous and standardized, it's got to
be accessible.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> oedipus, that'd be
great</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (someone is
whispering loudly on the call :)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Janina:</cite> there is a higher level
of interaciton on the social web -</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
ask whether members of the W3C accessibility community could
offer to contribute to the 'open' social network projects (GNU
Social; Diaspora, StatusNet etc)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> danbri, i will
carbon-copy emessage to GNU A11y leader to
public-xg-socialweb@w3.org</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> we could use this as an
opportunity to make connections between new emerging projects
in social web and accessibility community in w3c.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> once i close all my
ARIA action items i'll be focusing specifically on spec review,
XG review/participation and CSS3 development</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> Recommending people to
get involved in those projects is something we can do.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Facebook working on
accessibility: <a href=
"http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=71852922130">http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=71852922130</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> We're not really sure how
to thing of these projects - they are part standards, part
software, ...<br />
... e.g. gnusocial will build on top of statusnet
OStatus....<br />
... it would be good to run something like a workshop at
x-tech?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> wai-xtech the list,
not the conf!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> got to go and queue
up for the 1 mile queue to easyjet plane</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/wai-xtech</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> oh, just the issue
posted above</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> one of the best ways
forward might be - 2 paragraphs from PF working group...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> henry? wanna say
something before jumping on airplane?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> Identity is core to
the social web, since if you do not know who you are dealing
with, there can only be 2 agents for the server: me and them.
To distinguish people you need to knowing who someone is.
Currently there is this problem, is that browsers do not show
what identity one has when logged in. It's extremely simple
thing to fix. Is this something that could be part of
accessibility? Just wondering if you could check that out.
<a href=
"http://code.google.com/p/">http://code.google.com/p/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> this is a key
simple issue to put a recommendation on for browser
manufacturers</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes, it's just a
bug report</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> that URI is not
working bblfish</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> but it's
applicaable to any browsers, I have a bug issue on Firefox
too</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> bblfish, have you
looked into <a href=
"http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/04/account-manager-coming-to-firefox/">
http://hacks.mozilla.org/2010/04/account-manager-coming-to-firefox/</a>
at all?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> MichaelC, you wanted
to talk about interchange format</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> re: google source
code project, do you mean <a href=
"http://code.google.com/p/opensocial-jquery/">http://code.google.com/p/opensocial-jquery/</a>
?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> I wanted to bring up
the idea of an interchange format in the social web. There
might be accessibility issues there -</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> danbri, that bug
report references an earlier article on that</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>MichaelC:</cite> wanted to make sure
that doesn't fall off the radar.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> but thanks for the
update</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> got to go...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> I have to go. Will
catch up with hhalpin about section IV soon.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> we would like 2 paragraphs
- one paragraph on the problems of existing social networking
sites - other paragraph: looking at openID, OStatus-
technologies not in widespread use by people but which could be
shortly.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Janina:</cite> I think we can do
something like that.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> say two
paragraphs</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> one focussing on a
case study of an exisitng</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> site</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> and another on some
tech that is crucial for distributed tech</p>
<p class='phone'>I would also like to see an analysis of Oauth
accessibility - which is currently in wide use.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> thanks</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> thank you for
having us -- "look" forward to working more directly with
y'all</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> thanks</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Meeting
adjourned</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> bye</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> bye! &
thanks!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> I think I'm
MCarvalh</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>paul</cite>> I'm on the phone
still</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1 paul</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> facebook connect
will be replaced with oauth</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> i think identity
commons had some on their wiki</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 5 years :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oedipus</cite>> <a href=
"http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=71852922130">http://blog.facebook.com/blog.php?post=71852922130</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> trackbot, end
meeting</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Danbri to write
what he thinks is an adequate contribution [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to write
Introduction [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to invite
for latest development talk Connect and WebID and v.Next
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> member:tpaanglade
and member:Melvster on part 2 State of the Social Web in 2010
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tanglade and
melvster on part 2 State of the Social Web in 2010 [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tanglade to work
on a summary extract of the Social Web current use-cases for part
3 on wiki pages [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tpa and Melvster
on part 2 State of the Social Web in 2010 [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tpa to work on a
summary extract of the Social Web current use-cases for part 3 on
wiki pages [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
<address>
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2010/06/02 17:02:18 $
</address>
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<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/Giudelines/Guidelines/
Found Scribe: Dan
Found ScribeNick: DKA
Default Present: +1.617.848.aaaa, +63.59.2.aabb, Janina_Sajka, +0797094aacc, Michael_Cooper, +01510931aadd, +0774811aaee, +1.781.416.aaff, Gregory_Rosmaita
Present: +1.617.848.aaaa +63.59.2.aabb Janina_Sajka +0797094aacc Michael_Cooper +01510931aadd +0774811aaee +1.781.416.aaff Gregory_Rosmaita
Agenda: <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jun/0000.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jun/0000.html</a>
Found Date: 02 Jun 2010
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/02-swxg-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: danbri dka hhalpin member tanglade tpa
</pre>[End of <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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