20-swxg-minutes.html
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 20 May
2009</title>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>20 May 2009</h2>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>+1.314.705.aaaa, karl, tinkster, AlexPassant, oshani,
DKA, AdamB, mischat, renato, Hakan, AlexKorth?, danbri,
HenryStory, pchampin</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Harry_Halpin, Peter_Ferne, Ronald_P._Reck,
Christine_Perey, Jeff_Sonstein, Joaquin_Salvachua,
Lubna_Dajani</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>DKA</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Toby</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Task forces</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Invited guests</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">Any other business</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">Liasons with other groups</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>dom</cite>> trackbot, start
meeting</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 20 May
2009</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> thanks</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> how did trackbot do
that? :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>dom</cite>> it's called magic</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> cool!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>renato</cite>> string matching</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> zqkim, who's on the
call</p>
<p class='phone'>Hello all!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> <a href=
"http://w3csocialweb.tumblr.com/post/110450120/lifestreams-the-time-of-specs">
Last week in the Social Web</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> I again have no
clue of who I am on the phone. Experiences with skype,
anyone?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>renato</cite>> zankim, I am
+??P14</p>
<p class='phone'>Toby</p>
<p class='phone'>yes</p>
<p class='phone'>I can do if no-one else wants to.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> tinkster++!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> thanks</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> tinkster, did you did
it last week?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Scribe: Toby</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> ScribeNick:
tinkster</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> ScribeNick:
tinkster</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Kicking off with Harry's
agenda. Topic #1 is review of last week's minutes. Any
objections?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
<h3 id="item01">Task forces</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Discussion of task forces.
Lots about this last week. Two proposals from last meeting.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> correct</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> can privacy and
context merge ?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Privacy TF, Portability
& Arch TF. Karl and Joaquim as possible leaders?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Karl:</cite> Joaquim was not interested
in leading TF, but in looking at scope of TF to make sure not
too broad.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> +1 to merging
privacy and context task forces</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> mtiffiel =
mischat</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Karl:</cite> has been progress on user
stories thanks to Oshani and someone else (Mischa?) on
Wiki.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> +1 to merging
privacy and context task forces</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories">User
Stories</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i have also put
some text regarding privacy here <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Karl:</cite> Not able to introduce the
user stories, but Oshani can.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> User stories - #1
intransitive nature of privacy policies. <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Intransitivity_of_Rules.2FPolicies_Applied_to_Social_Network_Data">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Intransitivity_of_Rules.2FPolicies_Applied_to_Social_Network_Data</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> hi</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> Hello.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> zakin, muted me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> what's the app's
name?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>oshani:</cite> #2 Inferences based on
Contextual Data <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Inferences_based_on_Contextual_Data">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Inferences_based_on_Contextual_Data</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> k</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> harry did those as
far as i am aware</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> Other user stories were
submitted by Harry (who sends regrets).</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> there's the
interesting story of the French TF1 journalist who wrote
privately to his MP criticising the hadopi law passing in
parliament which found it's way into the hands of the minister,
and then into the hands of his employer, who then sacked
him.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> danbri made a remark about
throwaway identities.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> OpenID - single use
accounts ; how are two different accounts connected to each
other?<br />
... If one OpenID site has something nice to say about me, then
the karma associated with that account, should carry across to
other IDs.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> This sounds plausible. Is it
related to privacy?</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to document throwaway IDs on
Wiki [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-8 -
Document throwaway IDs on Wiki [on Dan Brickley - due
2009-05-27].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i have put some
text up re privacy and context</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i could talk
through it</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri write up user story about
different kinds of "single use" openids (eg. karma) [recorded
in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-9 -
Write up user story about different kinds of "single use"
openids (eg. karma) [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-05-27].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> throwaway IDs:
good point</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> any other user stories to
highlight?<br />
... can mischat elaborate on where to take these stories
next?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> was actioned to put up
some info on privacy and context. There was no "champion" for
Context - if it needs to be merged, then perhaps with
Privacy.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>uldis</cite>> Zakim: mute me</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> People benefit from
context - one of the main benefits of social networks. There's
a tension between privacy and involvement in a network.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> there has been some
work on co-ownership of data on SNs : see <a href=
"http://www2009.eprints.org/53/1/p521.pdf">http://www2009.eprints.org/53/1/p521.pdf</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> Talked about privacy and
removing unwanted information. Garlik did a survey of
government agencies and UK Data Protection Act.<br />
... Should we look at privacy policies of current social
networks?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> makes sense to me
too</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i wrote about this
recently <a href=
"http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/17123/1/ohara_et_al_idis_lifelogging.pdf">
http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/17123/1/ohara_et_al_idis_lifelogging.pdf</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Privacy and context go hand
in hand. Being tagged in a photo could invade your privacy.
Some regulations are EU-wide. Some similar work in US?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> "Privacy doesn't mean
anything in isolation."</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> Don't want to just look
at policies. I'm a developer, so tagged technology aspect on at
end.<br />
... can people add further comments to Wiki page.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> it works danbri</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> Talked to Flikr last
year. One of their concerns about FOAF is reusability of data
vs privacy.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i tried to allude
to this in the text, but good point danbri</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> Privacy starts when
there is an observer.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> Something on Twitter
shows up on other sites very quickly. Aggregate sites.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> oops I'd like to
add something to this</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> danbri has an idea of a
universal human right of people taking down information about
themselves.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ZoneTag project
used geo-tagged photos and social networks to do face detection
by what was known as Yahoo research berkeley</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://zonetag.research.yahoo.com/">http://zonetag.research.yahoo.com/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> One of the strongest
arguments companies have about not opening up their data is
privacy.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> I
volunteer</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> oshani to document takedowns as a user
story [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-10
- Document takedowns as a user story [on Oshani Seneviratne -
due 2009-05-27].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> take downs, by which
i mean "if some chunk of social web data about me happens on
site x, then flows to y and z ... and then i tell site x to
take it down and they do, ... how can site x communicate this
to y and z...?"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mib_84g3c5</cite>> +q</p>
<p class='phone'>(what danbri said)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> bblfish would like
to add himself to speaker queue</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> oshani, is that line
above a reasonable start towards user story?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mib_84g3c5:</cite> Privacy is important,
but portability is too. Shouldn't ignore one at expense of
other.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> danbri, could you
detail a bit more</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> danbri, we are
working on something called "Propagators" with Sussman these
days... it sounds like the same idea</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Maybe it should be
renamed "Context and Privacy"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> so yes</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mib_84g3c5:</cite> We want to be able to
share context in an open, re-usable way.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> how is context
different than any other form of data ?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> agreed. Must look at both
topics.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> mib_84g3c: no,
privacy is not sdedecracy but control over data reach. thus,
these aspects are inclu</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> I am on speaker
queue, or I don't know how to get onto it</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> * mib_84g3c: no,
privacy is not secrecy but control over data reach. thus, these
aspects are included</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> How is context different
than any other form of data? Privacy vs sharing context ==
privacy vs sharing other data.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> danbri, with
takedowns, we are assuming a push-based model, isn't it?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> i was trying not to
assume a particular protocol model</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>uldis</cite>> "Data Republishing on
the Social Web" touches the subject of propagation (<a href=
"http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-447/paper8.pdf)">http://ceur-ws.org/Vol-447/paper8.pdf)</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> downstream sites
might have responsibility to poll the source</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> okay so both push
and pull</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (i'll meet marc
canter for a beer tommorrow btw, he might know what some
companies are doing)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>karl:</cite> Possibility for people to
remove data / control data lifetime. DRM is related topic.
Right now, there's very little possibility for people to remove
data.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Yes, important issue, but
this isn't the only aspect we need to discuss. Henry...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> the push/pull aspect
is part technology or protocol (even if non-computery) ... but
the user story i think should be mostly at the level "Hey, i
took this off the Web here ,... why is it still on the Web here
here and here...." (without trying to specify some kind of
impossibly complete DRM-for-people-data)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> if two people say the
same thing, depending on who says it, it can take on a
different meaning.<br />
... If I say that I' a good worker, it doesn't have the same
authority as if my employer says it.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> agreed bblfish</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> danbri, agreed</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> Can we work this in?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> We need to have a user story
for this.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> bblfish "freedom of
expression is important ... to express what they want to say
... but need to keep track of who-said-what"</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> Following on from Henry.
Hassan something was thought by authorities to be a terrorist.
They had lots of third-party facts.<br />
... But he had IP addresses, context info that he could use as
an alibi.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>tinkster:</cite> "Providence" is the
word to sum this up.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> so that's related
to trust, right</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (mischat, can you
spell his name? wouldn't want to match him against the wrong
person ...)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yeah i getting a
link now</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> there is the notion
of speech acts</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> to be taken into
account</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> I talked about him
in this <a href=
"http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/17123/1/ohara_et_al_idis_lifelogging.pdf">
http://eprints.ecs.soton.ac.uk/17123/1/ohara_et_al_idis_lifelogging.pdf</a>
, this is his personal website <a href=
"http://trackingtransience.net/">http://trackingtransience.net/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> General consensus that
context and privacy belong as one TF and Portability
separate.<br />
... We need to decide this and who will lead them.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> For example, an art
professor at Rutgers, Hasan Elahi, who was arrested in</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> 2002 on serious
terrorism allegations despite being absolutely innocent of
any</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> criminal or
terrorist activity, has taken to lifelogging and posting the
information on</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> the Web as a
pre-emptive alibi</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>karl:</cite> What would be the
deliverables for the TFs? A document? A section for the general
report?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> For example, an art
professor at Rutgers, Hasan Elahi, who was arrested in 2002 on
serious terrorism allegations despite being absolutely innocent
of any criminal or terrorist activity, has taken to lifelogging
and posting the information on</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> the Web as a
pre-emptive alibi.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> The deliverable should be
something which flows into XG report.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> agrees.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> all kinds of other
goodness might come out of TFs, ... but they should always keep
in mind we need good materials for our final publication</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Once we set up a task force,
the leader would need to set up discussions and generally lead
the TF, but somebody else might be assigned as editor for the
TF's deliverables.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> are there templates
for these things ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (no templates yet
afaik)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>karl:</cite> A template would help a
lot.<br />
... We need user stories, what kind of solutions could
exist.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> cool</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> This is an example xg
report, for web content labels (which flowed into POWDER):
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/XGR-report/">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/XGR-report/</a></p><a name="action04"
id="action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> karl to produce a template for TF
deliverables. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-11
- Produce a template for TF deliverables. [on Karl Dubost - due
2009-05-27].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> i've added takedown
text from here into <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Document_Takedowns.3F_Propagators">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Document_Takedowns.3F_Propagators</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Good example XG report -
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/XGR-report/">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/wcl/XGR-report/</a>
- we need TF chairs, but also good wordsmiths.<br />
... Can we talk about invited guests, now?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> so what are the
task forces?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> TFs: fine</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> "Context & Privacy"
, "Data Portability & Architectures"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (1 mins, looking for
a link)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Proposed TFs : "Context
& Privacy" , "Data Portability & Architectures". Also
Christine has offered to lead work on business and landscape,
which are part of work of XG, not a TF.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> +1 to the 2 task
forces</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mib_84g3c5</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>tinkster:</cite> I'm happy with these.
Architectures = Distrib Arch, right?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>wonsuk</cite>> +1 for 2 TF</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>uldis</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> danbri: I put in
the "Data Protection" user story in a rush this morning, I
wanted to hint at what you have put placeholders for, so please
feel free to remove/mangle as appropriate</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
store links re invited guests ... <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests</a>
and</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> People should think about
whether they want to lead.</p>
<h3 id="item02">Invited guests</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> There's two pages on Wiki
- Invited Guests page.<br />
... contributed by Harry, cleaned by danbri.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i have added in
some people in context and privacy (people should feel free to
delete as appropriate)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> Other page is
DiscussionTopics. Better to discuss specific topics than just
bringing people in for open-ended talks.<br />
... First topic suggested is widget platforms. Can we do
something useful here by putting people in touch who aren't
currently working with each other?<br />
... vCard/PortableContext/FOAF is another one suggested by
Harry.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> perhaps I should
move the privacy and context stuff out....</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Involved with widgets. This
is something we should look at, but after Widgets F2F, 9-11
June.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> DKA: art barstow
pushed this (widgets discussion) til after their f2f ... 9th to
11th june</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> We should have someone from
Opera represented as a guest.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> I could chase Chaals.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Mark (?) would with Chaals
and might be a candidate.</p><a name="action05" id=
"action05"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to find someone from Opera to
talk Widgets. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-12
- Find someone from Opera to talk Widgets. [on Dan Brickley -
due 2009-05-27].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> Not completely convinced
that vCard discussion is best way of doing this. Would be happy
if everyone used FOAF, but that might be a conflict of
interest.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hehe</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> When is the right stage
to bring in non-RDF-converts?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> kick-out
music</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> ooooh it is the music
of the group!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>uldis</cite>> yeah, we have music!
:)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> wow :-)</p>
<p class='phone'>The official SWXG anthem is playing again.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes, we had that
before</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ok everyone be
quiet</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> henry?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AdamB</cite>> it must be our theme
song</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> busted!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>uldis</cite>> :D</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> ????</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> ahah!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> -1 on music</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> It's not me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hehe</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> I'm not music
source.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AdamB</cite>> henrystory is our
official composer</p>
<p class='phone'>Everyone else: yes, you are.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> is it our role to get groups
to work out their problems in our conference calls?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> I wonder if henrystory
music enters in the privacy & context section.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> very difficult to
proove my innocence....</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> very different dynamics
between "protocol people" and "schema people". RDF world allows
various different schemas to play in one model.<br />
... Protocol work is more about software architecture.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>tinkster:</cite> FOAF could certainly
benefit from some vCard stuff. (tel, adr)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> does TF "Data
Portability & Architectures" end up with protocol and
exchange format recommendations anyway?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> can it be done as
fact-finding exercise? with some template ...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> eg. issues faced,
opportunities, plans, ....?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> wants to avoid conference
calls entirely consisting of arguments between two external
groups.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> these vocabs
probably all fit together one way or another</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i wonder if we
should invite experts when we have some good questions ready
?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> But good to identify
communities working on same problem but in isolation.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> mischat, right.
we should collect and agree on questions for our guests.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Wiki page for discovering
overlapping topics/communities.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> Can we have a template
for collecting info from communities "what have you achieved
over last year? what problems have you had?"<br />
... Anyone think this is useful? Do you have any ideas about
what these templates should look like?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i think it is a
good idea, i wouldn't know where to start with template</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> [sound of
silence]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>pchampin</cite>> just like mischat
:)</p><a name="action06" id="action06"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri sketch a 5 line template for
interaction with other groups (cf InvitedExperts,
DiscussionTopics) [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-13
- Sketch a 5 line template for interaction with other groups
(cf InvitedExperts, DiscussionTopics) [on Dan Brickley - due
2009-05-27].</p>
<h3 id="item03">Any other business</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Coming to end of hour.
AOB?<br />
... proposal about changing time of meeting?<br />
... Two hour meeting, with second hour for a task force. We
should defer this until TFs established.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> can we have section
in the wiki for the task forces ? I could move the text i wrote
to that section from the <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics</a>
section</p>
<h3 id="item04">Liasons with other groups</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> AlexPassant, you
wanted to ask about SPARQL WG liaison</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> there was a lot of
b/g noise there</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>AlexPassant:</cite> Should we have a
liason with SPARQL WG?<br />
... Alex can act as a liason.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> nope</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> re liaison with
SPARQL ,are there specific technical scenarios that are
relevant to the two groups? eg. 1. Oauth for SPARQL protocol 2.
SPARQL extensions for social graph analytics</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Yes, this seems useful. Can
this go on the Wiki. We need a liason wiki page.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> and the federated
sparql query ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> do those examples
make sense?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> yep and
federated</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yes</p><a name=
"action07" id="action07"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> AlexPassant to create a liasons list
on the Wiki and list himself for SPARQL. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-14
- Create a liasons list on the Wiki and list himself for
SPARQL. [on Alexandre Passant - due 2009-05-27].</p>
<p class='phone'>Bye!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexKorth</cite>> bye all</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mib_84g3c5</cite>> bye</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> bye all</p>
<p class='phone'>Don't know where, don't know when.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>uldis</cite>> thanks</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AdamB</cite>> bye</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> danbri: I will take
an action to move the privacy text from your
DiscussionTopics</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> karl: would be nice
to hear your views on the privacy/context stuff on the wiki,
being the task force lead and all</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> danbri mischat
: status of current SPARQL features proposed by the WG after
the first F2F <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2009/05/19/sparql_working_group_holds_1st_face_to_f">
http://www.w3.org/blog/SW/2009/05/19/sparql_working_group_holds_1st_face_to_f</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yeah, i have seen
that</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> mischat: will do that
today :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> karl: great</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> mischat, oh it's
fine there ... i was just suprised to see the page grew :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> danbri: oauth
would make sens for the protocol and update, indeed</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> swh once again
apologies for not being here</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> he is another
person which will join this talks, and is on the sparql WG
too</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> the rough idea for
that page originally, ... was that we should collected topical
themes before pulling in outsiders</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ideally with
specific questions or concrete issues that conclusions might be
reached around</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> sure</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> that makes
sense</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i will tidy up the
markup</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> crap i'm still in
zakim even</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> wrote it in a
hurry, right bye for now, back to coding :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> bye all</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> bye all!</p>
<p class='phone'>s/^<strong>ACTION:</strong> /ACTION: /g</p>
<p class='phone'>Seems to be there to me. Hit reload?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani_</cite>> tinkster, yes now I
see it</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani_</cite>> thanks</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> AlexPassant to
create a liasons list on the Wiki and list himself for SPARQL.
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri sketch a 5
line template for interaction with other groups (cf
InvitedExperts, DiscussionTopics) [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to
document throwaway IDs on Wiki [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to find
someone from Opera to talk Widgets. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri write up
user story about different kinds of "single use" openids (eg.
karma) [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> karl to produce a
template for TF deliverables. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> oshani to
document takedowns as a user story [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2009/05/20 14:18:26 $
</address>
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<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
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<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/'/?/
Succeeded: i/DKA: Discussion of task forces. Lots about this last week. Two proposals from last meeting./TOPIC: Task forces
Succeeded: s/TOPIC: invited/TOPIC: Invited/
Succeeded: i/AlexPassant, you wanted to ask about SPARQL WG liaison/TOPIC: Liasons with other groups
Succeeded: i/DKA: Coming to end of hour. AOB/TOPIC: Any other business
FAILED: s/^ACTION /ACTION: /g
Succeeded: s/ACTION /ACTION: /g
Found Scribe: Toby
Found ScribeNick: tinkster
Found ScribeNick: tinkster
Default Present: +1.314.705.aaaa, karl, tinkster, AlexPassant, oshani, DKA, AdamB, mischat, renato, Hakan, AlexKorth?, danbri, HenryStory, pchampin
Present: +1.314.705.aaaa karl tinkster AlexPassant oshani DKA AdamB mischat renato Hakan AlexKorth? danbri HenryStory pchampin
Regrets: Harry_Halpin Peter_Ferne Ronald_P._Reck Christine_Perey Jeff_Sonstein Joaquin_Salvachua Lubna_Dajani
Found Date: 20 May 2009
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-swxg-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: alexpassant danbri karl oshani
</pre>[End of <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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