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  <h1>- DRAFT -</h1>

  <h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>20 Jan 2010</h2>

  <p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-irc">IRC
  log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>hhalpin</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>Dan</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
        2010-01-20T21:00Z</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">Action Reminders</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">Christine, Renato, and Kaliya on
        Social Web Frameworks</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 20 January
    2010</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I'm having
    difficulty reaching the Zakim conf bridge</p>

    <p class='phone'>I think we need to get Zakim to set up a
    termporary code for us?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>renato</cite>&gt; me to</p>

    <p class='phone'>something like "zakim, room for 15"?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; hey, I sent an
    e-mail to adminreq</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; zakim aaaa is me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; \me FYI people, due
    to scheduling bit, conference code is 26631</p>

    <p class='phone'>Can anyone else who plans to join the call
    please do so on the newly minter Zakim code, 26631 please?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; can person typing
    mute themselves, please?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; Scribe: Dan</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; ScribeNick: DKA</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; noisy breathing?</p>

    <h3 id="item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
    2010-01-20T21:00Z</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to
    approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 13th January 2010 as a true
    record</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/01/13-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/01/13-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ACCEPT: to approve
    SWXG WG Weekly -- 13th January 2010 as a true record</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Next week, guest speaker
    talking about Salmon protocol.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ACCEPTED: to meet
    again Wed. Jan 27th</p>

    <p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: Accept
    last week's minutes.</strong></p>

    <h3 id="item02">Action Reminders</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> please people - look at
    your actions and update the group if anything has happened with
    your actions!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ACTION
    <strong>[DONE]</strong>: hhalpin to doodle over XG vs IG</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - <strong>[DONE]</strong></p><a name="action01" id=
    "action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[DONE]</strong> hhalpin to
    doodle over XG vs IG [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - <strong>[DONE]</strong></p><a name="action02" id=
    "action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[DONE]</strong> hhalpin to
    doodle over XG vs IG [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <h3 id="item03">Christine, Renato, and Kaliya on Social Web
    Frameworks</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> danbri has reignighted
    the w3c widgets - open social widgets discussion. That should
    be happening on a future xg call.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://wiki.idcommons.net/Lexicon">http://wiki.idcommons.net/Lexicon</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://m2bp.pbworks.com/">http://m2bp.pbworks.com/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Let's go through these
    documents and find some consistency. My starter is to adopt the
    id commons terminology and to see how far we are on general
    principles.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; we'll try to get
    chris saad on the phone later to compare/contrast this with
    christine and renato's document</p>

    <p class='phone'>High level principles from Anita: <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jan/0019.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Jan/0019.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> I want to introduce
    rentato and my document and then discuss how to proceed on
    today's call</p>

    <p class='phone'>Great!</p>

    <p class='phone'>:)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; fine with me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; also we should try
    to talk about making meeting time more convenient for west
    coast people, i'll take an action for a doodle poll on
    this.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>rentato:</cite> quick background -
    Christine and I were talking about some of the topics discussed
    in the XG and we decided to document "e.g. we think when we say
    distributed profiles we mean this" --</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> the document is our first
    attempt and we are now exposing it to the wider group and
    filling the holes we haven't covered.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; this is information
    we want to add to the introduction of the document</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; useful for several
    communities</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> target audience - this
    audience [the xg] and technical people but also "high-end"
    social web users and useful for standards bodies and
    communities to understand.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; not going into deep,
    deep terminology</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> useful for a broad range
    of communities</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> one thing that came to
    light this morning in discussion with ? - when we were working
    on this we were talking about concepts being discussed by
    people as lay people, but many of these concepts have only now
    become "lay people" topics where previously they were the
    domain of specialists. [e.g. social graph]<br />
    ... this is a key point in where the lexicon came from</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> if you look in our
    document, the terminology section, we wanted to define these up
    front because we use them later int he document...<br />
    ... we've come with some ideas already to modify our list. We
    would like to add another column, mapping to other communities
    including id commons.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; are there any other
    groups with well-defined lexicons?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; but we want to point
    out that some concepts/terms are specific to Social Web</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; the word "agent"
    comes in useful here</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks#The_Terminology">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks#The_Terminology</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; and the ID commons
    calls it a "digital subject"</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> "social web user" - we
    were thinking of individuals although we need to talk about
    organisations as well...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; highly charged for
    so many people</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; agent isn't
    necessarily digital though.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; profile =? digital
    identity</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> "identity" - this is an
    overloaded term, but we need a term to describe a collection of
    profiles, the idea that a person has multiple profiles or
    personas as ID commons calls them.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; the aggregation of
    all your profiles</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; seen only by the
    person (Social WEb user)</p>

    <p class='phone'>Agree using the word "identity" might not be
    best -- maybe "digital identity."</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> So looking for
    suggestions.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> my comment - profile
    maps onto ID commons "digital identity" - what about re-using
    the ID commons terms?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; kaliya talking</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; aggregate set of
    all profiles?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Kaliya:</cite> is "identity" an
    "aggregate set of all profiles" - something more
    descriptive.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; there isn't (in the
    ID commons lexicon) something which matches up with the term we
    have called Identity</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Kaliya:</cite> Thought about making a
    longer descriptive way to communicate that.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; there is a "gap" in
    both ID commons and Social Web vocabulary</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>yoshiaki</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> yes "identity" as a term
    probably overloaded.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Identity =&gt; "The
    unique single identity of a Social Web User, . A user has one
    and only one unique conceptual identity which contains all the
    information about the user."</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; It seems to be
    "total identity" or "aggregate identity" to me.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>yoshiaki:</cite> In Japan many people
    use more than one identity, one name, such as pseudonom. So
    many cases were it is not adequate to use a single profile.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> in our terminology we
    would say that people have multiple profiles or personas. That
    collection of profiles represents you as a single person
    somehow.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; we could start
    using trackbot's issue tracker :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> let's bookmark this and use
    the term "collection of profiles" for now maybe...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ISSUE: Replace term
    "identity" with "aggregate identity" or something more
    precise</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ISSUE-2 -
    Replace term "identity" with "aggregate identity" or something
    more precise ; please complete additional details at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/issues/2/edit">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/issues/2/edit</a>
    .</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yuk</cite>&gt; sorry i don't have a
    phone now. but seems this definition of identity is similar to
    social web user</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> profiles are composed of
    attributes or properties - one of the reasons we identified
    these attributes is that one of the key notions in the paper is
    that of a "distributed property/profile" - we often use in our
    conversation the word "distributed" and that needs
    clarification.<br />
    ... one reason for distributed properties is that the user is
    occupying more than one social application. These concepts are
    central to the social web.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; in ID common
    lexicon, profile =? digital identity</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> the "social application"
    is kind of synonymous to a social network today.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; correct?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> "profile association",
    "social connection", "social obligation" and "social
    interaction"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; DKA, you wanted to
    comment on "social obligation"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ISSUE: look for
    another word besides obligation</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ISSUE-3 -
    Look for another word besides obligation ; please complete
    additional details at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/issues/3/edit">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/issues/3/edit</a>
    .</p>

    <p class='phone'>In <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories</a>
    we talked about establishing connections and managing
    "relationships"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Although we need
    the notes DKA :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yeah!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; agree with what you
    just said, Dan</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; connection doesn't
    make any sense without a relationship</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; this is what we are
    trying to express with these different shapes of BLUE lines in
    the figures</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; there are different
    types of connections</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; could be
    uni-directional or bi-directional</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> I suggest that a connection
    without a relationship (obligation in your document) is
    meaningless. Even a follow relationship is a relationship. So
    connection is important to capture but doesn't a connection
    need at least one "relationship"?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; yep context is a
    tricky one.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://ftp.cs.toronto.edu/pub/gh/Hirst-CICLing-2000.pdf">http://ftp.cs.toronto.edu/pub/gh/Hirst-CICLing-2000.pdf</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> possibly - this is also
    missing some terms that we use in the document. We don't define
    "context" and we don't define "social graph."</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; that above URI is
    for a paper that from an AI perspective notes a number of
    different usages of word "context"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; but then does call
    it a "spurious concept"</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> if you skip down a few
    sections we've dedicated some thinking to that - we feel this
    group would be an excellent place to make some improvements to
    the terminology around social graph.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; re: social graph i
    think it was first popularized here by bradfitz following
    discussions on 'social network portability' <a href=
    "http://bradfitz.com/social-graph-problem/">http://bradfitz.com/social-graph-problem/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> quick comment to Dan on
    social connection / relationship: what we're trying to say is
    that you make these connections in the context of a social
    application and that's how you determine what the types of
    relationships are. So relationships are in the context of a
    social application...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yes, but this is now
    a docment which has aged</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; we need to work on a
    "modern" and flexible and widely used definition of social
    graph</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; +1 property</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> also - whether to use
    "property" and "attribute" - ID commons uses attribute.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; property is rdf
    too</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yes, that's exactly
    one of its problems (problem with the term property)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; is that it is deeply
    associated with Semantic web thinking</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> The reason I think some
    people would want to use Property is that this is used in
    semweb world. If ID commons is using "attribue" it might be
    better to use what ID commons is using. Also wondering -
    wondering about the difference between profiles and digital
    identity.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; any preference?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; "profile" I guess
    was popularized by Facebook</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>renato</cite>&gt; attribute is ok (and
    we can map to rdf:property)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; "persona
    profile"?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Kaliya:</cite> When our community were
    developing our lexicon some of these things weren't out there.
    I like "persona" because it's clear it might not be tied back
    to the real name of the person.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ISSUE: profile vs.
    persona vs. digital identity</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ISSUE-4 -
    Profile vs. persona vs. digital identity ; please complete
    additional details at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/issues/4/edit">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/track/issues/4/edit</a>
    .</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; different levels of
    framework?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; harmonizing
    vocabularies</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; this is about Social
    Web, not necessarily rdf</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> agree to use "attribute" if
    possible.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> first diagram - social
    identity - in this case we have a single person or single
    identity which has multiple profiles. Those profiles could be
    overlaping - some of the properties re-used. Then a web user is
    saying they are joining a number of social applications.
    They're then using one of the profiles in the context of that
    social app and then using other profiles for other apps.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; not single
    application</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; a profile could be
    "Shared"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; by multiple social
    applications</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> a single profile could be
    relevant to multiple applications?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> yes.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>yoshiaki</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> another extension was
    distributed social profile - your profile should know how to
    retrieve and access those properties from around the web.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; DKA, you wanted to
    wonder if our "property" is a direct 121 match with ID commons
    "attribute"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Last FM user can
    profile a user on the basis of playlist</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>yoshiaki:</cite> in last.fm, user can
    profile other users and use them for their playlist or
    blacklist [so this is another kind of profile]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; profile must be
    flexible enough to adapt</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> using profile as a term -
    to profile someone -<br />
    ... the actual profiling is something we capture in the "system
    &amp; framework " section - analytics section.<br />
    ... I think we are using profile as a noun not as a verb.<br />
    ... going on to "social graph" - we wanted to show in diagram
    #3 - we tried to show without getting too complex - what we
    wanted to show is one user is using the same profile across
    different applications and connections happen between
    profiles.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; btw, the term
    social graph is also described here in Tim BL's essay: <a href=
    "http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/215">http://dig.csail.mit.edu/breadcrumbs/node/215</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> we went on to talk about
    frameworks.<br />
    ... how we think all these different frameworks could work
    together.<br />
    ... each of these frameworks have different services in
    them...<br />
    ... what other frameworks would be useful to include in the
    diagram?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; definitely useful,
    really like the frameworks bit</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> feedback?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; drats. timing fail.
    guess I'll read the minutes.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; why not just use
    wiki?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> for people who have the
    time - using the method that Kaliya used - marking up a
    [deleted] document with track changes - might be an option to
    do this.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>renato:</cite> the only thing about
    using the wiki is that you don't see it in front of you like
    track changes...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I propose that we
    attach a text version of the file to the wiki page</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; a "Word" version of
    the document (which can be edited/commented) more freely</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://wiki.idcommons.net/Persona">http://wiki.idcommons.net/Persona</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; [person name]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> to clarify the wiki -
    it's only changeable by those with a w3c account - all changes
    are tracked - if you look at the ID commons wiki you can see
    how different people talk in the wiki...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; that was only added
    after an editor went through the process of synthesizing wide
    inputs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; then you can use
    some manual "markings"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; to note where you
    added/change the words</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> I'm happy for people to
    communicate however they best work - I don't use [deleted]
    change tracking but people could do that when expressing
    private thought. We could keep multiple versions...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>renato</cite>&gt; sorry calling back
    in.....</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> I suggest it's somewhat
    about comfort level with a tool...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; happy to sit down
    with christine and renato and show them how to use wiki, but
    lots of people can't do "track changes" in Word doc.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; there's lots of
    options, including two separate wiki pages</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; periodic updates to
    the HTML version based on inputs/comments from community</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; one with edits and
    another with accepted edits</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; inputs would be
    provided in any tool which is comfortable for the person who
    wants to offer input</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; kaliya?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Kaliya - what's your
    thoughts on lexicons, should we be feeding back into id
    commons, how do we [work with you?]<br />
    ... would you prefer re-usage of ID commons terms or mapping?
    What would you prefer? What about for new terms?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; the mapping
    column</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Kaliya:</cite> I thought talk with
    Christine &amp; Renato went well - I trust them to judge if
    they can easily adopt it. Adding a column [mapping] would be
    good.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; i have made a
    comment about the use of Social graph above and think we can
    adapt previously defined words to embrace what we have
    today</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Kaliya:</cite> That's more important
    than "my vocabulary winning" and there are a bunch of concepts
    that aren't in the paper / aren't in our lexicon. So best
    approach would be [mapping].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; would probably
    require going to identity commons workshop</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> are you aware of other
    communities which have lexicons which we are missing?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; that's the Venn
    paper?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Venn of
    Identity?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; that would be part
    of the landscape of the Social Web</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; re-use where
    approprite</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.openprivacy.org/opd.shtml">http://www.openprivacy.org/opd.shtml</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>renato</cite>&gt; Sorry all - I can't
    get back into the call - the new code no longer works!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Kaliya:</cite> The next generation - Kim
    Cameron's paper goes into depth on certain thing. If you look
    at his lexicon he points to other lexicons. Don't believe you
    have to invent a definition for everything.</p>

    <p class='phone'>:)</p>

    <p class='phone'>I mean :(</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Renato is not on
    call</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; relationship
    portability</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; this is a
    tricky/difficult concpet</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; this is where
    access/privacy/context is quite useful I imagine, and
    central</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Kaliya:</cite> real issues with social
    graph portability... in particular where you have a
    relationship wher eyou don't want that relationship to appear
    in another context.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Bob's relationships
    paper</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; would be useful to
    send it to the list.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; it's getting late
    here!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yes, it should be
    expanded in the paper</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> maybe we could close the
    call?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; meta-framework</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> Social graph portability
    should be explored in the paper.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; quite messy, often
    very private data in social profiles</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Meeting
    Adjourned</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; thanks all</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> that is the difference
    between classical concept of linked data and the actual reality
    of social networking.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; thanks!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>renato</cite>&gt; thanks all - see u
    on the list</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to
  doodle over XG vs IG [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  <strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to
  doodle over XG vs IG [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2010/01/20 22:15:54 $
  </address>

  <div class="diagnostics">
    <hr />

    <h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
    before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
    <pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/cprerey/cperey/
Found Scribe: Dan
Found ScribeNick: DKA

WARNING: No "Present: ... " found!
Possibly Present: ACCEPT ACCEPTED DKA Dan IPcaller ISSUE MacTed P2 P4 P6 PROPOSED ScribeNick Yuk aaaa aacc cperey danbri hhalpin joined josephboyle kaliya karl melvster melvster1 oshani renato rentato swxg trackbot yoshiaki
You can indicate people for the Present list like this:
        &lt;dbooth&gt; Present: dbooth jonathan mary
        &lt;dbooth&gt; Present+ amy

Found Date: 20 Jan 2010
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/01/20-swxg-minutes.html</a>
People with action items:

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.


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    scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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