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  <title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 10 Mar
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  <h1>- DRAFT -</h1>

  <h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>10 Mar 2010</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Mar/0017.html'>
  Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/03/10-swxg-irc">IRC
  log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>DKA, Marcos, +0161238aaaa, mischat, darobin, MacTed,
      cperey, danbri, bblfish, AnitaD, melvster</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>SV_MEETING_CHAIR</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>mischat</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li><a href="#agenda">Topics</a></li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'></p>

    <p class='phone'></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 10 March
    2010</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; bah. missed the hour
    delay note.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; trackbot, end
    meeting</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Meeting: Social
    Web Incubator Group Teleconference</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 10 March
    2010</p>

    <p class='phone'>zakim +??P12 is me</p>

    <p class='phone'>zakim ?P12 is me</p>

    <p class='phone'>zakim ??P12 is me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; mischat === harry
    ?</p>

    <p class='phone'>ok DKA</p>

    <p class='phone'>i can scribe</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; Scribe: mischat</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; ScribeNick: mischat</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; hi</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to approve
    SWXG WG Weekly -- 3 March 2010 as a true record ( <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/03/03-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/03/03-swxg-minutes.html</a>
    )</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/03/10-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/03/10-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>this call is limited to an hour</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to meet again
    Wed. March 17th.</p>

    <p class='phone'>the focus of today's meeting will be on the
    widgets talk</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; some historical
    notes in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/WidgetsDiscussion">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/WidgetsDiscussion</a>
    ... not sure how timely they still are</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA give regrets for next weeks call</p>

    <p class='phone'>any administrative topics, worth mentioning,
    please do so now</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; DKA: I'm a
    widgetarian and proud of it</p>

    <p class='phone'>Widgets is one of those words which has lots
    of connotations dependant on context</p>

    <p class='phone'>in the W3C context DKA, Marcos, and darobin
    have been working on the W3C Widgets</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; A widget is defined
    by the [Widgets-Landscape] as "an end-user's conceptualization
    of an interactive single purpose application for displaying
    and/or updating local data or data on the Web, packaged in a
    way to allow a single download and installation on a user's
    machine, mobile phone, or Internet-enabled device".</p>

    <p class='phone'>widgets have taken on a new another meaning in
    social space, that is of functionality in a social
    container</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (in a previous life,
    I worked with Robin and Libby Miller on widgets for TV
    stuff)</p>

    <p class='phone'>3 invited speakers Marcos, darobin, and Scott
    from apache</p>

    <p class='phone'>ah scott</p>

    <p class='phone'>thanks darobin</p>

    <p class='phone'>Scott to start taking about the Apache project
    and what they are doing with Widgets</p>

    <p class='phone'>Scott, uses widgets, gadgets, and apps
    interchangeably</p>

    <p class='phone'>Wookie ?</p>

    <p class='phone'>url someone please</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; yes Wookie</p>

    <p class='phone'>Apache Incubator project called Wookie,
    implements the W3C Widget API</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://incubator.apache.org/wookie/"></a></p>

    <p class='phone'>thanks darobin</p>

    <p class='phone'>Wookie team wanted to support collaborative,
    multi-user widgets</p>

    <p class='phone'>the W3C API is neutral to the number of users
    who are said to work with a given widget</p>

    <p class='phone'>so Wookie implemented the Google Wave API to
    add collaborative functionality to the W3C Widget API</p>

    <p class='phone'>there are integration points between the
    Wookie widgets and shindig widgets</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://shindig.apache.org/"></a></p>

    <p class='phone'>where Shindig apps are Open Social Widgets</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; [ShinDig is an
    OpenSocial implementation]</p>

    <p class='phone'>thanks again</p>

    <p class='phone'>danbri is asking about Open Social, and how
    they use OAuth and authentication APIs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; on authentication
    methods, see Powerbox <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Feb/att-0140/Overview.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-device-apis/2010Feb/att-0140/Overview.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Wookie does the same thing as Open Social,
    they exchange tokens to create trust between widgets and
    APIs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; eg. <a href=
    "http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/2leggedoauth/2opensocialrestapi">
    http://sites.google.com/site/oauthgoog/2leggedoauth/2opensocialrestapi</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>both Shindig and Wookie server widgets as
    iframe in webpages, which ends up going through trusted
    proxys</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; WARP is <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-access/">http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-access/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA, is breaking up</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA, what type of feedback have you had from
    the community (outside of the standards body) re: W3C
    widgets</p>

    <p class='phone'>most people downloading wookie, seem to be
    people outside the standards body, which elgg</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://elgg.org/">http://elgg.org/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>which include elgg, an open decentralised
    social network</p>

    <p class='phone'>most people interested in collaboration tend
    to use shindig</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    ask about top 3 things w3c-and-friends might do to reduce pain
    for developers learning these techs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; shindig uses
    terrifying amounts of js</p>

    <p class='phone'>danbri, from a developer point of view how
    could you reduce the barrier to entry by uniting the two
    different APIs (shindig &amp; wookie)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; re packaging, i
    quite like Mozilla Jetpack's non-packaging approach (raw .js
    urls)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; danbri, that
    doesn't make it easy to carry things across systems though</p>

    <p class='phone'>the two specs seem to have clearer APIs now,
    which should make it easier for developers to create
    widgets</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>darobin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/widgets-apis/"></a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; are those APIs or
    dataformats ( re: "people api, album api, …")</p>

    <p class='phone'>Wookie has implemented most of the W3C API
    already</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (who joined? you are
    noisy)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; yes, I hear the
    noise too</p>

    <p class='phone'>the google wave API has a collection of
    collaborative API calls, which work nicely with the People
    centric API calls from other APIs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; darobin, you wanted
    to mention Powerbox</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>darobin:</cite> do you have feedback on
    what we just heard, from an implementation point of view</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; danbri: jetpack
    dumped that model</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; danbri: it was
    borked</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; marcos, got an
    url?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; yep, one sec</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>darobin:</cite> is going to mention
    powerbox, this is about plugin which allows for ways to install
    new APIs into a browser, which allows a website to access data
    from a different server. This is to do with the OAuth question
    earlier</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; danbri: see <a href=
    "http://vimeo.com/10011379">http://vimeo.com/10011379</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; he explains it in
    the vid</p>

    <p class='phone'>the impact for this working group, it that
    powebox may give users an easy method to connect data from one
    website to another in a safe manner ?</p>

    <p class='phone'>in the powerbox approach, the user selects
    which service they wish to integrate data from</p>

    <p class='phone'>widgets developers wants functionality such as
    "give me contacts module"</p>

    <p class='phone'>for a given api</p>

    <p class='phone'>Powerbox is said to make it easier to the end
    user to select which APIs they wish to interact with</p>

    <p class='phone'>bblfish is coming from the linked data, foaf,
    distributed world. Henry asks how do widgets fit into this
    model of a distributed social network</p>

    <p class='phone'>widgets should be oblivious to the platform in
    which they are being embedded into</p>

    <p class='phone'>henry, asks what is meant by an API, he asks
    whether the API is a data-model focused API?</p>

    <p class='phone'>they tend to be JS APIs which define the data
    returned by a given API call</p>

    <p class='phone'>examples include getViewer() -&gt; which gets
    info about the viewer of the current page, the data would
    include avatar, an ID, and a name</p>

    <p class='phone'>other examples include getViewersFriends()
    -&gt; which returns info regarding the viewer's friends</p>

    <p class='phone'>both shindig and wookie require a unique
    identifier, they ask for hashes, i.e. URI's which have no
    external meaning</p>

    <p class='phone'>henry is talking about the pros of having a
    URI which is resolvable, which does have external meaning, so
    that everytime a widget gets given a URI, this would allow the
    widget to go out and get info about the URI used</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; thanks darobin!</p>

    <p class='phone'>Marcos, wanted to talk about opera unite which
    uses widgets to make a client act as a services, to allow for
    peer-2-peer communication on the web</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; bye robin!</p>

    <p class='phone'>allowing for servers to built on the client
    side, opera unite has been dealing with how they could do with
    using the http: protocol</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA, how is wookie using OAuth?</p>

    <p class='phone'>Wookie's main use case for OAuth, is for when
    a widget wants to get data from an OAuth endpoint</p>

    <p class='phone'>in opera unite, OAuth is used to leverage data
    found in external services too</p>

    <p class='phone'>OAuth allows for server =&gt; server
    communication</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; CORS</p>

    <p class='phone'>the W3C widget spec is going to consider OAuth
    as a mechanism to get data from a different container</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (oh, i missed that?
    thought it was re Wookie)</p>

    <p class='phone'>ah</p>

    <p class='phone'>sorry, i thought he said in the W3C</p>

    <p class='phone'>danbri asked if anyone is looking at
    OAuthwrap</p>

    <p class='phone'>people are waiting to see what happens to the
    OAuth spec, waiting for things to settling down</p>

    <p class='phone'>sorry, i missed all of that</p>

    <p class='phone'>:)</p>

    <p class='phone'>thank you</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/WidgetSpecs">http://www.w3.org/2008/webapps/wiki/WidgetSpecs</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>marcos described the widget spec, details of
    which can be found ^^</p>

    <p class='phone'>the widget spec will be blocked by html5, as
    there are dependencies there</p>

    <p class='phone'>nope danbri</p>

    <p class='phone'>the W3C widget community have been aware of
    the Wookie work for a long time</p>

    <p class='phone'>scott has been implementing everything before
    everyone else</p>

    <p class='phone'>there is a need for API, and for specifying
    how data will flow between widgets</p>

    <p class='phone'>widget's are supposed to be a simple container
    format, social interactions would be fantastic, but are not
    necessary</p>

    <p class='phone'>W3C Media Annotations</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='phone'>danbri is talking about how we need an
    extensibility model before work can be unified</p>

    <p class='phone'>the widgets specification is based on XML,
    i.e. extensibility via namespaces, and the work is said to be
    extensible. The platform is designed to be very extensible</p>

    <p class='phone'>in wookie, you can APIs at runtime, i.e.
    functionality from the google wave gadget API can be added</p>

    <p class='phone'>in as need be</p>

    <p class='phone'>looking at widgets created, most people are
    looking for their widgets to go viral, how would the W3C spec
    supports this</p>

    <p class='phone'>the wookie work shows that widgets are easy to
    deploy onto a server environment</p>

    <p class='phone'>widgets are supposed to be easy to grab off of
    the web, so that they can be run elsewhere</p>

    <p class='phone'>this supports archival, by allowing people to
    recreate widgets</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (<a href=
    "http://www.openintents.org/en/">http://www.openintents.org/en/</a>
    is somehow relevant but i can't articulate details)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; very cool.</p>

    <p class='phone'>you ripp things off of a server and host it on
    whatever device you wish</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; eg -&gt; <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/">http://dev.w3.org/2009/dap/contacts/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>A good next step would be too look at the
    various APIs available on the web, mapping it dap</p>

    <p class='phone'>mapping it to dap</p>

    <p class='phone'>thanks for interesting talks!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; thanks, learned a
    lot :-)</p>

    <p class='phone'>and sorry for my rubbish scribing, lots of new
    things being talked about today</p>

    <p class='phone'>bye all</p>

    <p class='phone'>thank you</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; thanks folks!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; trackbot, make
    minutes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, Marcos, I
    don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes'. Please refer to
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc">http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc</a>
    for help</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; thanks!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Marcos</cite>&gt; hmm... nope :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; trackbot, make minutes
    please</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, DKA, I
    don't understand 'trackbot, make minutes please'. Please refer
    to <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc">http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc</a>
    for help</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; hmm</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; i think i could
    have just asked trackbot to end meeting</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; trackbot, end
    meeting</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
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    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
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    $Date: 2010/03/10 18:04:43 $
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    <h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
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Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/and/any/
Succeeded: s/???/Scott/
Found Scribe: mischat
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WARNING: Replacing list of attendees.
Old list: MacTed
New list: cperey

Default Present: DKA, Marcos, +0161238aaaa, mischat, darobin, MacTed, cperey, danbri, bblfish, AnitaD, melvster
Present: DKA Marcos +0161238aaaa mischat darobin MacTed cperey danbri bblfish AnitaD melvster
Agenda: <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Mar/0017.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Mar/0017.html</a>

WARNING: No meeting chair found!
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&lt;dbooth&gt; Chair: dbooth

Found Date: 10 Mar 2010
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
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People with action items:

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&lt;dbooth&gt; Topic: Review of Amy's report


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