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  <title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 07 Oct
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  <h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>07 Oct 2009</h2>

  <p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-irc">IRC
  log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd> Adam AlexPassant CaptSolo Carine DKA FabGandon MacTed OpenLink_Software  alex bblfish caribou cperey danbri evanpro hhalpin joined melvster mischat pchampin petef rreck  tinkster trackbot yuk</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Andrea</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>hhalpin</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>peterf</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li><a href="#agenda">Topics</a></li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 07 October
    2009</p>
    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Convene SWXG WG
    meeting of 2009-10-07T15:00-17:00Z</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; scribe: peterf</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to
    approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 30th September 2009 as a true
    record</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; RESOLVED: approved
    SWXG WG Weekly -- 30th September 2009 as a true record</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; evanpro, when you
    call in, we're on extension 26632 instead of 7994.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to meet
    again Wed. October 14th</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 2. General
    Organization</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; TPAC, IIW</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Planning_for_TPAC_Open_Day">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Planning_for_TPAC_Open_Day</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; TPAC?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I imagine go a
    few...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Hoping to have an
    "Open Day"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; but it conflicts
    with OAuth/OpenID Summit, which is also on Monday 2nd.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> you are scribing?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; This is at
    Yahoo.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; do you have a URL
    for the openid oauth summit?</p>

    <p class='phone'>I'm happy if you are.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://openid.eventbrite.com/">http://openid.eventbrite.com/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Petef - please
    scribe!</p>

    <p class='phone'>OK</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; petef, hhalpin
    likes to type up everything he says to prevent himself from
    being misquoted.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I try to type dates
    and stuff...</p>

    <p class='phone'>dka my initial view was we should have the
    open day anyway</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>evanpro</cite>&gt; Seems like there'd
    be great synergy to have them complementary events</p>

    <p class='phone'>[please tell me if I am missing scribing
    protocol]</p>

    <p class='phone'>dka but now think maybe we should cancel the
    openday</p>

    <p class='phone'>and work with the openid thing</p>


    <p class='phone'>thanks guys</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> should we just forget about
    it?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> how about Tue at the
    Marriot?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; Well I can get Sun
    on Tuesday too</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; what about later in
    the week?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> not too many people
    registered</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> we could invite people to
    observe our working group<br />
    ... unless we could get externally parties in to present, like
    on the calls</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> we could invite people
    Michelle Adamic (sp?) has a list of names we could invite</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; many apologies but
    what about having Open Day on another day?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; later in week?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>evanpro</cite>&gt; two days close
    together please</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>evanpro</cite>&gt; I would attend if
    both events were close together</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>evanpro</cite>&gt; A week apart makes
    things hard for out-of-towners</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Henry</p>

    <p class='phone'>Thanks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; So the question is
    how many people would be able to come on Monday?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>henry:</cite> it's only an openid
    meeting, we aren't expecting any new announcements</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; there are three
    confilcting events</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; My concern was
    two-fold: first, conflicting events might be misinterpreted by
    OpenID/OAuth folks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; there is Apache
    conf</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; there is IIW</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; New proposal: what
    about having an Open Day when there are not conflicting
    events?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; there is W3C
    conf</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Any ideas?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; early Dec?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I mean completely
    separate</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> I could take an action
    item to propose other dates at anoher location, not TPAC</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; ok, then the
    problem is that a lot of people won't be out there</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; anymore</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> I won't be out in the Bay
    area again for a while<br />
    ... part of the idea of doing it at TPAC was to leverage
    people's attendance<br />
    ... could we do a hybrid event with the openid folk?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; sounds good too</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> half a day on each<br />
    ... is that a middle way that would satisfy everybody?<br />
    ... if so we could start drafting a page around that and get it
    out to people</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; My question is can
    we just get these people to get to TPAC - i.e. TPAC into an
    "open day"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Assuming very few
    people are coming</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; I think I agree
    with that</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; how many people can
    come to OpenDay?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> concerned that we may not be
    able to network a largish event at short notice</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; the IIW will be all
    week?</p>

    <p class='phone'>hhalpin?: won't people also be attending
    IIW?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; sorry I mean they
    will be all week</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> we want to make sure we
    aren't stepping on any toes<br />
    ... seen as trying to put on a competing event<br />
    ... but if we could get some CTOs and mktg consultants into
    TPAc that would be good</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> we need to move on</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yep, meeting
    after</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; henry you are
    breaking up</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>evanpro</cite>&gt; petef, 514-554-3826
    == me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; haha!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; danbri: we're not
    in 2994.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> evan is on the line, let's
    make the most of his time</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>evanpro:</cite> I'm enjoying
    listening</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; we're in 26632</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Adam</cite>&gt; 26632 is the new code
    dan</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> we'll go straight to... the
    invited guests</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 3. Invited Guest -
    Evan Prodromou from OpenMicroBlogging and Alex Passant on
    Semantic Microblogging</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Evan?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>evanpro</cite>&gt; I'm here</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Evan Prodromou of
    OpenMicroblogging will give a talk on his work on
    OpenMicroblogging (see the specification) and its connection to
    the wider Social Web ecoystem</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> hopefully evanpro can give
    us an interesting introduction to OMB</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>evanpro:</cite> a conjunction of openid,
    oauth and swxg would be enough to get me out to CA<br />
    ... I am the inventor and shepherd of OMB<br />
    ... bg on myself - working on open source and content for 15
    yrs</p>

    <p class='phone'>esp wikitravel</p>

    <p class='phone'>around issues of identity</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://evan.prodromou.name/">http://evan.prodromou.name/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>briefly on JSF Council</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://identi.ca/evan">http://identi.ca/evan</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>with the launch of Twitter in 2007</p>

    <p class='phone'>there was an expolsion of interest in OMB</p>

    <p class='phone'>defined as exchange of small text message with
    your social network</p>

    <p class='phone'>twitter, jaiku, pownce etc.</p>

    <p class='phone'>contrast to blogging , tumblelogs and social
    bookmarking</p>

    <p class='phone'>people seem to enjoy OMB and the
    responsiveness of it</p>

    <p class='phone'>as the growth of witter got ahead of their
    ability to support it</p>

    <p class='phone'>interest grew in the evolution of an open
    standard for microblogging (OMB)</p>

    <p class='phone'>seeing as noone else was doing it I thought I
    would set up an easy hack</p>

    <p class='phone'>federated</p>

    <p class='phone'>started laconica in May 2008, hosting
    identi.ca</p>

    <p class='phone'>includes features important to the future of
    the open social web</p>

    <p class='phone'>openid, foaf, import and export of data</p>

    <p class='phone'>you can take the identi.ca source and install
    it in silo</p>

    <p class='phone'>so decided to create a protocol</p>

    <p class='phone'>my design criteria were</p>

    <p class='phone'>http based system</p>

    <p class='phone'>tend to go for the low end on servers</p>

    <p class='phone'>so that you could install a node on commodity
    shared hosting</p>

    <p class='phone'>wanted it to work with openid and oauth</p>

    <p class='phone'>and to be realtively easy to implement with
    existing tools and libraries</p>

    <p class='phone'>flirted with openid attrib exchange</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; cf <a href=
    "http://openid.net/specs/openid-attribute-exchange-1_0.html">http://openid.net/specs/openid-attribute-exchange-1_0.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>but the mechanics don't allow pushing and
    pulling to other openid servers</p>

    <p class='phone'>so wouldn't really work</p>

    <p class='phone'>instead used oauth</p>

    <p class='phone'>subscribing to somebody's notices means that
    you authorise another server to push to your inbox</p>

    <p class='phone'>four players:</p>

    <p class='phone'>publisher, subscriber, publiher-server,
    subscriber-server</p>

    <p class='phone'>profiles within OMB are http urls</p>

    <p class='phone'>subscriber provides their url to the publisher
    server</p>

    <p class='phone'>which uses oauth discovery</p>

    <p class='phone'>still very fluid</p>

    <p class='phone'>OMB uses XRD simple files</p>

    <p class='phone'>draft since deprecated for LRDD</p>

    <p class='phone'>will share links later</p>

    <p class='phone'>use oauth discovery to find endpoints</p>

    <p class='phone'>two additional endpoints are defined</p>

    <p class='phone'>the user experience is to go through the
    typically oauth dance</p>

    <p class='phone'>token exchange</p>

    <p class='phone'>unlike some other pubsub mechanisms</p>

    <p class='phone'>there's an expectation that I should know who
    subscribes to my feed</p>

    <p class='phone'>closer relationship</p>

    <p class='phone'>pass along profile info in oauth dance</p>

    <p class='phone'>avatar, full name, location, homepage, short
    bio</p>

    <p class='phone'>via http post params</p>

    <p class='phone'>once sub complete</p>

    <p class='phone'>the two additional endpoints are used</p>

    <p class='phone'>push based (unlike atom or rss)</p>

    <p class='phone'>no polling</p>

    <p class='phone'>good responsiveness, better performance</p>

    <p class='phone'>post notice endpoint</p>

    <p class='phone'>used by pulisher server</p>

    <p class='phone'>profile update endpoint</p>

    <p class='phone'>used if publisher profile chganges</p>

    <p class='phone'>any kind of client to server api is out of
    scope</p>

    <p class='phone'>laconica (now called status net) uses a clone
    of the twitter api</p>

    <p class='phone'>also working on an atompub version</p>

    <p class='phone'>any kind of syntax def'n is also out of
    scope</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Adam</cite>&gt; the pub/sub
    explanation sounds very similar to pubsubhubhub</p>

    <p class='phone'>just pushes plain text</p>

    <p class='phone'>hashtags #foo and directed messages @bar are
    not defined in OMB</p>

    <p class='phone'>0.1 protocol has been fairly successful</p>

    <p class='phone'>thousands of nodes on the network</p>

    <p class='phone'>important weaknesses</p>

    <p class='phone'>no system for unsolicited notices</p>

    <p class='phone'>if you aren't subscribed to me no way for me
    to message you</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; Adam, it sort of
    is, but there's no hub per se. Updates are pushed from
    publisher server to subscriber server.</p>

    <p class='phone'>parsing syntax left out which means the
    hashtags and replies have to be guessed at</p>

    <p class='phone'>threading questions across multiple
    servers</p>

    <p class='phone'>no threading bult in</p>

    <p class='phone'>no direct private messages eiother</p>

    <p class='phone'>low level thing, in oauth two kinds of keys -
    one to identify a particular conversation and one for th
    sending server -</p>

    <p class='phone'>OMB actually uses the root URL of the sending
    server</p>

    <p class='phone'>hard to verify in the client</p>

    <p class='phone'>I'd like to talk about where we are going with
    OMB 0.2</p>

    <p class='phone'>four other implementations:</p>

    <p class='phone'>openmicroblogger, jaiku (at 0.2), etc.</p>

    <p class='phone'>for 0.2 biggest change is move away from plain
    text to atom entries for pushing notices</p>

    <p class='phone'>richer data format</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; NB: In Vodafone we are
    already using laconi.ca for an internal microblog system and we
    are looking at using it as a platform for building mobile
    social network prototype apps.</p>

    <p class='phone'>we'll also e able to leverage work around
    activitystreams</p>

    <p class='phone'>which is also atom based</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://activitystrea.ms/">http://activitystrea.ms/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (aside: they're
    moving this to be equally atom and json)</p>

    <p class='phone'>second important thing is we will include
    parsed html</p>

    <p class='phone'>some security issues obviously</p>

    <p class='phone'>will require sanitizing</p>

    <p class='phone'>but good step for usability</p>

    <p class='phone'>adding in-reply-to info</p>

    <p class='phone'>will improve threading</p>

    <p class='phone'>@xyz will resolve to an identity url for the
    recipient</p>

    <p class='phone'>that will travel with the packet</p>

    <p class='phone'>replacing oauth discovery with LRDD</p>

    <p class='phone'>support for unsolicited messages</p>

    <p class='phone'>in protocol, up to clients what they do with
    it</p>

    <p class='phone'>proposal to provision verifiable user keys</p>

    <p class='phone'>[tinkster I'll get it right eventually]</p>

    <p class='phone'>we want something interoperable by the end of
    the year</p>

    <p class='phone'>relation to openid</p>

    <p class='phone'>OMB identity is an URL</p>

    <p class='phone'>use YADIS</p>

    <p class='phone'>want to make sure we mesh nicely with
    openid</p>

    <p class='phone'>two new feed based systems announced</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; bradfitz</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; fitzpatrick</p>

    <p class='phone'>pubsubhubbub</p>

    <p class='phone'>atom based</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PubSubHubbub">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PubSubHubbub</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>and rsscloud</p>

    <p class='phone'>embedded into rss 2.0 but never really
    implemented</p>

    <p class='phone'>now being revived</p>

    <p class='phone'>neither supports feeding back subscriber
    relation to publisher</p>

    <p class='phone'>we are implementing both of these and trying
    to work with the standards to add in subscriber publisher
    feedback</p>

    <p class='phone'>activity streams - the hard part will be the
    unification between AS, atom and opensocial</p>

    <p class='phone'>always wanted http based system</p>

    <p class='phone'>but would also like an upshift to xmpp based
    if both servers support it</p>

    <p class='phone'>well known protocol, very nice pubsub
    system</p>

    <p class='phone'>some work done to adapt it for OMB</p>

    <p class='phone'>looking into that</p>

    <p class='phone'>stubs for that in 0.2</p>

    <p class='phone'>discovery process over the next few months</p>

    <p class='phone'>+q</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    ask if anyone has done usability testing on OMB remote
    subscription scenarios</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; peterf first</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>petef:</cite> have you looked at
    wave-protocol in relation to OM</p>

    <p class='phone'>B</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>evanpro:</cite> v. intersting but ow it
    will fit into OMB is still open</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; ok i fixed my audio,
    i'm next on queue please :)</p>

    <p class='phone'>for low end target systems wave won't be
    available for quite a while</p>

    <p class='phone'>whether it picks up as ubiquitous will be
    interesting</p>

    <p class='phone'>my hope is that it does see some success</p>

    <p class='phone'>don't think the current generation fits well
    with OMB</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; yes</p>

    <p class='phone'>interested in wave and how it develops</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; no longer
    audible</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; you were audiable</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; losing part of danbri's
    speech</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; q:</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; have you done any
    usability testing</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; esp on remote
    subscribe aspects of OMB</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; do users understand
    what's going on, etc</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>evanpro:</cite> usability testing -
    pretty important usability problems</p>

    <p class='phone'>v. similar to usability problems for
    openid</p>

    <p class='phone'>mechanism is very similar</p>

    <p class='phone'>I need to remember my identity url</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; cf <a href=
    "http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-user-experience/">http://lists.openid.net/pipermail/openid-user-experience/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>and provide it to remote servers which use it
    to start a conversation on the back end</p>

    <p class='phone'>we haven't done much work on that</p>

    <p class='phone'>hopwe we can borrow from openid world</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; i'm interested to
    see more work figuring out how much implies protocol design
    changes, and how much can be done with improved web design,
    addons etc</p>

    <p class='phone'>widgets and keeping an eye on webfinger</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://code.google.com/p/webfinger/">http://code.google.com/p/webfinger/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://hueniverse.com/2009/09/implementing-webfinger/">http://hueniverse.com/2009/09/implementing-webfinger/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>users associate people with email type
    addresses</p>

    <p class='phone'>and urls with docs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; thanks evanpro, ...
    i think webfinger pretty relevant here</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://hueniverse.com/webfinger/">http://hueniverse.com/webfinger/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>webfinger also nice simple way to include
    addresses into OMB msgs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/fingerpoint/">http://buzzword.org.uk/2009/fingerpoint/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>passive subscription</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; """What Problem is
    WebFinger Trying to Solve? ... WebFinger is trying to address
    the lack of adoption and usability of current HTTP-URI-based
    user identifier solutions, most notably OpenID. """</p>

    <p class='phone'>would speed things up and improve
    usability</p>

    <p class='phone'>could also happen with a global directory,
    although there are concerns about recentralisation</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (so maybe some role
    for <a href=
    "http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/">http://code.google.com/apis/socialgraph/</a>
    etc ?)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; AlexPassant, you
    wanted to discuss synergies with SMOB / SIOC and other
    vocabs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; skypish sounds</p>

    <p class='phone'>alex(?): very brief overview of SMOB (audio
    not clear)</p>

    <p class='phone'>wondering how it relates to OMB</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; Alex, StatusNet
    already published FOAF, RSS and SIOC data.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; SMOB: <a href=
    "http://smob.sioc-project.org/">http://smob.sioc-project.org/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>evanpro:</cite> we support sioc(?)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; s/shark/SIOC/</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; SIOC is pronounced
    like Shark, yes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (irish word)</p>

    <p class='phone'>doesn't address server to server mechanism</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>CaptSolo</cite>&gt; danbri: commonly
    pronounced as "shock"</p>

    <p class='phone'>similar to smtp</p>

    <p class='phone'>SMOB does a good job of keeping your published
    info and pushing it out</p>

    <p class='phone'>but not really server to server
    interaction</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (shark is commonly
    pronounced 'shock' in some countries too ;)</p>

    <p class='phone'>wouldn't be a big leap to implement OMB in
    SMOB</p>

    <p class='phone'>would be very welcome</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>CaptSolo</cite>&gt; danbri: the proper
    irish pronounciation is similar to "shuck" and means frost
    (imagine social networks connecting together like snowflakes or
    frost on a window)</p>

    <p class='phone'>OMB doesn't (yet) cover sharing the social
    graph</p>

    <p class='phone'>you can use other mechanisms, through FOAF
    say,</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-10-07.html#T11-56-51">http://chatlogs.planetrdf.com/swig/2009-10-07.html#T11-56-51</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>might be nice to promote it or provide an
    url</p>

    <p class='phone'>as part of profile info passed through</p>

    <p class='phone'>SMOB is cool, would love to see it brought
    together with OMB</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>alex:</cite> more than happy to work
    together</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>evanpro:</cite> one of our devs took the
    OMB stuff out of staus net and turned it into a WP plugin and a
    PHP library</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; you're breaking
    up</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; did we have DKA's
    question yet?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> how are you using
    FOAF?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; nope</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; w: are you making
    use of foaf to do something</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://identi.ca/tobyink/foaf">http://identi.ca/tobyink/foaf</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>evanpro:</cite> we provided FOAF info
    and use FOAF ids in graph</p>

    <p class='phone'>toby has been great in helping us implement
    that and the SIOC stuff better</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; try putting <a href=
    "http://identi.ca/danbri">http://identi.ca/danbri</a> into
    <a href=
    "http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/exploreapi.html">
    http://socialgraph-resources.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/samples/exploreapi.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; google sgapi indexes
    identi.ca foaf</p>

    <p class='phone'>Could use FOAF for profile exchange in OMB</p>

    <p class='phone'>makes more sense for discovery and so
    usability</p>

    <p class='phone'>who should I follow?</p>

    <p class='phone'>who might I kalready know?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; poss foaf use cases
    'what kind of people should i be subscribing to, who sohuld i
    follow, who is there that i know, ...'</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (i think also around
    groups, ...)</p>

    <p class='phone'>groups is another great case</p>

    <p class='phone'>there's going to be a close interaction
    between OMB and FOAF</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; SELECT ?person
    WHERE { ?me subscribesTo ?x , ?y . ?x subscribesTo ?person . ?y
    subscribesTo ?person . FILTER (?x != ?y) }</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; evanpro, if there
    are tweaks you need to foaf to support any of these use cases,
    ... that's not so hard to arrange!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> we are limited on time</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; i've already had a
    question so i'll take it to email!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; a-</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> are you thinking about
    making lcation part of the platform</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (my q was basically
    <a href=
    "http://lists.status.net/pipermail/statusnet-dev/2009-August/002117.html">
    http://lists.status.net/pipermail/statusnet-dev/2009-August/002117.html</a>
    again)</p>

    <p class='phone'>one reason many of us use Jaiku is the
    sophisticated support for location</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>evanpro:</cite> fascinating that we are
    reintroducing location to the web</p>

    <p class='phone'>in OMB 0.1 we only have a points tring
    associated with a profile</p>

    <p class='phone'>if I update it, that can change (but would be
    lost)</p>

    <p class='phone'>making changes to staus net to support a
    richer more machine friendly location format</p>

    <p class='phone'>will be out in 0.9 later this month</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster1</cite>&gt; geonames
    IIRC?</p>

    <p class='phone'>lat long and geo place name vocab</p>

    <p class='phone'>where on earth, geonames, OSM</p>

    <p class='phone'>we will also include location info for each
    notice</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; sounds along
    the lines of the linkage we're doing in SMOB with geonames and
    DBpedia, great synergies</p>

    <p class='phone'>would make sense to get it into OMB 0.2</p>

    <p class='phone'>optional but important</p>

    <p class='phone'>moving to atom - should be easily included in
    atom entries</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (<a href=
    "http://status.net/trac/report/6">http://status.net/trac/report/6</a>
    seems interesting to poke around...)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>evanpro:</cite> would love to attend
    open day, thanks for having me on the call</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; evanpro - will stay
    in touch via e-mail, and thanks so much for being on call!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> thank you</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; thanks evanpro!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> we have to close the call
    now<br />
    ... we need tocome up with a plan for the openday offline by
    tomorrow<br />
    ... how to mesh with SWXG workshop, openid and oauth</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Oh, can we have an
    ACTION by someone</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; to summarize that
    call?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; bye</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; thanks, bye</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; I can
    summarise</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; good point harry -</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; thanks
    tinkster!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; way to go
    tinkster</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; :)</p><a name=
    "action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to summarize Evan's talk
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-96
    - Summarize Evan's talk [on Toby Inkster - due
    2009-10-14].</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Dan - do you really
    want to do it, or tinkster?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; If tinkster can do it
    that would be great.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; OK, will delete
    that from the minutes then...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; I'm happy to.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; thanks toby!</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to
  summarize Evan's talk [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/07-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2009/10/08 15:51:23 $
  </address>

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