02-mediafrag-minutes.html 20.7 KB

Raw Blame History Permalink

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

<html lang='en' xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
<head>
  <meta name="generator" content=
  "HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 12 April 2005), see www.w3.org" />

  <title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 02 Sep
  2009</title>
  <link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
  "http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/base.css" />
  <link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
  "http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/public.css" />
  <link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2004/02/minutes-style.css" />
  <meta content="Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference"
  name="Title" />
  <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=
  "Content-Type" />
</head>

<body>
  <p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
  "http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C" border="0" height=
  "48" width="72" /></a></p>

  <h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>02 Sep 2009</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0000.html'>
  Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>Raphael, Davy, Silvia, Yves, thierry, Conrad</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Erik, Michael</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>Raphael</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>raphael</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">1. ADMIN</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">2. UC and Requirements</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">3. Specification</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">4. Test Cases</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item05">5. Implementation</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item06">6. AOB</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 02 September
    2009</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/</a></p>

    <h3 id="item01">1. ADMIN</h3>

    <p class='phone'>PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 26
    August 2009 telecon</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/08/26-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='phone'>Minutes accepted</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yves</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>Quick poll: <a href=
    "http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw">http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>We are still missing answers from Jack and
    Conrad</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> we are likely to meet
    during these 2 time slots on Thu 17 and Fri 18/09</p>

    <p class='phone'>[silence]</p>

    <p class='phone'>Anyone has a proposal for a virtual blackboard
    tool we could use ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; I can book
    Zakim</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Thierry to book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri
    18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-102
    - Book Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET
    [on Thierry Michel - due 2009-09-09].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; Ok will convert To
    prper Time</p>

    <p class='phone'>thanks</p>

    <p class='phone'>Yves and I will most likely share an office
    during the call</p>

    <h3 id="item02">2. UC and Requirements</h3>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-101?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-101 -- Yves
    Lafon to write a UC describing the use of aspect ratio feature
    and thus motivating its usage -- due 2009-09-02 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/101">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/101</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; ... pending</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> reviews of our documents
    will come from the Media Annotations WG (Felix), and TimedText
    (Philippe)<br />
    ... Chris from SVG said that they were interested to review it,
    but I don't know whether they have done something</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> I will relaunch TAG early
    next week</p>

    <h3 id="item03">3. Specification</h3>

    <p class='phone'>3.1: Terminology</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> proposal to replace all
    occurence of URI by URI Ref, see <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0066.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Aug/0066.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Michael gave a +1 on the mailing list to this
    proposal</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> Yves, what is your take
    on that?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://labs.apache.org/webarch/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#uri-reference">
    http://labs.apache.org/webarch/uri/rfc/rfc3986.html#uri-reference</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; we could also say
    that when we say URI we mean URI reference</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/</a>
    &lt;- title</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> if we use the term URI ref,
    will the people understand what we mean?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> alternative (also
    suggested by Thierry) to add a paragraph clarifying our
    statement</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; +1 for a
    preliminary paragraph</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I'm ok with that, just
    wanted to point out the issue</p><a name="action02" id=
    "action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia to write such a paragraph in
    our 2 documents, most likely within the Terminology sections
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-103
    - Write such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within
    the Terminology sections [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due
    2009-09-09].</p>

    <p class='phone'>3.2 Syntax</p>

    <p class='phone'>Proposal for RESOLUTION: we will *NOT* allow
    editUnits</p>

    <p class='phone'>for specifying the temporal dimension</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yves</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> also to not fall in the
    trap of the MPEG-21 complexity</p>

    <p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: we will
    *NOT* allow editUnits for specifying the temporal
    dimension</strong></p>

    <p class='phone'>Discussion 2: have absolute time specification
    that contains day and year</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> all done, using the clock
    scheme, added in the document and wiki</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#naming-syntax">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#naming-syntax</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> based on the HTML5/SMIL
    EBNF syntax</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-49?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-49 -- Yves
    Lafon to draft the HTTP-Range syntax for different units
    (completing all the syntax for the two way handshake) -- due
    2009-09-02 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; am hoping we can get
    a reference implementation using flumotion for the clock time
    spec</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> ongoing, but will have
    things done at the end of this week ... At least for seconds,
    so people can implement</p>

    <p class='phone'>3.3 UA Server HTTP Communication</p>

    <p class='phone'>The respective role of ? and #: see Silvia's
    blog post at <a href=
    "http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/08/19/jumping-to-time-offsets-in-videos/">
    http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/08/19/jumping-to-time-offsets-in-videos/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> what are the issues ?<br />
    ... we could mandate the use of ? when there is transcoding
    happening<br />
    ... since a new resource is created<br />
    ... while # will be used in other cases</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yves</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate-03">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate-03</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> the URI template might be
    usable now</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> what the URI template
    will be used for?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> it will be useful in the
    case of ? ... to say that the server is aware of how to process
    media sub-resources</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I wouldn't prescribe
    that<br />
    ... I would rather say that URI template is useful in the case
    of ? but not make it dependent</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> it is mostly used in
    definition, no need for implementation<br />
    ... I'm not sure this is the right solution, but worth to
    investigate</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> yes, we might do a URI
    template for the ?<br />
    ... actually, I would look into it</p><a name="action03" id=
    "action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to start a thread on the mailing
    list to summarize the state of the discussion regarding ? and #
    (? when transcoding happening, #for other cases) + use of URI
    template for ? [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-104
    - Start a thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of
    the discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening,
    #for other cases) + use of URI template for ? [on Yves Lafon -
    due 2009-09-09].</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-69?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-69 --
    Conrad Parker to draw a representation of the general structure
    of a media resource, for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2
    + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>I will ping Conrad what's the status</p>

    <h3 id="item04">4. Test Cases</h3>

    <p class='phone'>ACTON-93?</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-93?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-93 --
    Michael Hausenblas to revisit the TC and see which are effected
    by the temporal-optional-comma-decision -- due 2009-07-29 --
    OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/93">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/93</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>still pending while I have closed
    ACTION-99</p>

    <p class='phone'>Michael tool: <a href=
    "http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/">http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Should we use this tool that Michael hacks
    ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> I'm happy if Michael wants
    to further develop it</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> do we have already
    feedback to provide to Michael ?</p>

    <p class='phone'>[silence]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I'm happy with the
    tool</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; I think this table
    needs row numbers</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I interpret your silence
    as you would not mind to add new TC and interact with them</p>

    <p class='phone'>Feature proposal: add row numbers in the
    table</p>

    <p class='phone'>thanks Silvia</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; also, somebody needs
    to add the other discussed test cases :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> yes, we will ask Michael
    :-)</p>

    <h3 id="item05">5. Implementation</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> nice demo, play it at
    <a href=
    "http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html">http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/">
    http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Blog post: <a href=
    "http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/">
    http://blog.gingertech.net/2009/09/02/demo-of-deep-hyperlinking-into-html5-video/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> what I have done is to
    showcase for the HTML5 WG what the media frag spec could
    do<br />
    ... I don't cover all the spec, temporal dimension only and
    simple way of specifying time<br />
    ... no error handling<br />
    ... basic goal is to replicate YouTube functionalities ... but
    cooler ;-)<br />
    ... everything implemented in Javascript<br />
    ... it will become much more complicated if we implement all
    the schemes we foresee in the spec<br />
    ... but the proof of concept is more important at this
    point</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> would you mind to cc the
    Media Fragments WG if you advertise this demo to the WHAT/HTML5
    mailing lists ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> no problem</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> perhaps warn the
    audience that this does not cover the protocol part of the
    spec, how the bits will be send between the server and the
    UA<br />
    ... but on client side, it shows nicely what the media
    fragments URI spec will enable</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I have to use a hack for
    caching / optimizing the media duration and not perform look up
    all the time<br />
    ... Mozilla guys are happy to make this feature standard
    anyway<br />
    ... this is particular to the ogg format<br />
    ... can I get approval from the group for advertizing this work
    to WHAT?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> absolutely !</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>Conrad, you're not on the phone, I need to
    chase you for some actions ... pending and overdue</p>

    <p class='phone'>is there any strong constraint with this hour
    for you?</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-90?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-90 -- Davy
    Van Deursen to provide a pointer to Yves to a lib he can use to
    slice media files -- due 2009-10-14 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/90">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/90</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> still pending, it is more
    complicated than what I thought ...<br />
    ... there is service, but these are not libraries we can
    interface</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; raphael, sorry, no
    strong constraint, i was delayed coming home from work</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> we will use our platform,
    but we need to provide the interface<br />
    ... for Yves's hacking<br />
    ... I will write more information on the wiki page when this is
    done<br />
    ... should be done by 17/09/2009</p>

    <p class='phone'>Wiki page: <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; ok</p>

    <p class='phone'>Silvia, could you add your demo on this
    page?</p>

    <h3 id="item06">6. AOB</h3>

    <p class='phone'>Is there any other business you would like to
    discuss?</p>

    <p class='phone'>Conrad, could you please fill <a href=
    "http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw">http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw</a>
    asap ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> we should think about
    the structure for the virtual meeting</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yves</cite>&gt; yep</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Discussion:</cite> ? vs # /
    implementations / protocol stuff / test cases</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> we need the status of
    your actions<br />
    ... and we need to have a telecon on the protocol
    comparison</p>

    <p class='phone'>when can we have that?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; how is Action-69? Is
    it too hard to draw? would it be better to describe?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; action 69 is not yet
    done</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - 69</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; i have some diagrams
    close to that ;-)</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-69?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-69 --
    Conrad Parker to draw a representation of the general structure
    of a media resource, for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2
    + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> I have already diagrams
    close to that</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Poll:</cite> <a href=
    "http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw">http://www.doodle.com/xbw9stfdmz3pr4nw</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>it would be great if you could make one of the
    two time slots</p>

    <p class='phone'>[adjourned]</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia to write
  such a paragraph in our 2 documents, most likely within the
  Terminology sections [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Thierry to book
  Zakim on Th 17 and Fri 18/09, from 10:00 till 12:00 CET [recorded
  in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to start a
  thread on the mailing list to summarize the state of the
  discussion regarding ? and # (? when transcoding happening, #for
  other cases) + use of URI template for ? [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/02-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2009/09/02 13:13:24 $
  </address>

</body>
</html>