08-swxg-minutes.html
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
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<head>
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 08 Jul
2009</title>
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<body>
<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
"http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C" border="0" height=
"48" width="72" /></a></p>
<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>08 Jul 2009</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html'>Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="at tendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Zakim error</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Tim_Anglade, Hakan, Cloud</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt> <dd>DKA</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Adam Boyet</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li><a href="#agenda">Topics</a></li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 08 July
2009</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to
approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 8 July 2009 as a true record</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsalvachua</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: SWXG WG
Weekly approved 8 July 2009 as a true record</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> Could everybody on
the call please mute when not talking</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to meet
again Wed, 15th July</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsalvachua</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AndreaP</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> danbri -can you
scribe?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> DKA will chair next
week.</p>
<p class='phone'>dka to chair next week</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 2. General
Organization and Task Forces</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> hi</p>
<p class='phone'>hhalpin thought would be interesting to look
at the social group wiki</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuestSummaries">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuestSummaries</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> hhalpin: thought
would be interesting to look at the social group wiki</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> to look at summaries of
invited guests<br />
... to see if someone would volunteer to summarize talk from
last week</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> volunteer??</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i can</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Mischa, you'd be
perfect!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> mmm</p><a name=
"action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to summarize josh and soren't
talk [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-51
- Summarize josh and soren't talk [on Mischa Tuffield - due
2009-07-15].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 3. User stories</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> to summarize the invited
guests in the wiki for future references</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Go for it
Mischa!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> will hopefully complete
by next week</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> talked with josh about
running terms through plagerism software</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> that would be
GREAT!!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> great idea to track
changes on the terms and conditions</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> and put them in version
control and see how all the T&Cs change over time</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> sounds like it
could be interesting to see the results of that.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> great idea, would be
interesting to share on the final report</p><a name="action02"
id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Sören to
propose addition to the template for user stories for
conditions [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> soren and cprey exchanged
emails on conditions of user stories<br />
... he sent draft and exchanged comments over the weekend</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> working on a final
version</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> tobey in luck with
microblogging document tracking sources story</p><a name=
"action04" id="action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[DONE]</strong> tinkster to
document developer stories on wiki. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>toby:</cite> shares link to tracking
sources</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 4. Invited Guest
Invitations</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> tobyink, thanks for
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Tracking_Sources">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Tracking_Sources</a>
!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> update on invited guests
... would attempt to illicit input from mobile operator ... Sam
??? to come on july 22nd to answer a few questions</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> looks good to me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I think July 22nd
works for Sam Crichtley</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Critchley</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> introduce to his service
and mention how he would like to see this evolve<br />
... from gypsey</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>samcritchley</cite>> Yes, that's
me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>samcritchley</cite>> :-)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> hello sam!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Your on for the
July 22nd.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>samcritchley</cite>> Hi!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> will change web page to
the 22nd</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Send us any links
you want us to read ahead of time.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>samcritchley</cite>> Will do</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> reaching out to geo location
working group and somebody from oslo companies with relation to
the location sharing<br />
... probably be good for the next call</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> re geolocation:
<a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pling/2009Jul/0005.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pling/2009Jul/0005.html</a>
... note the last call doc to review</p><a name="action05" id=
"action05"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to describe/implement a git
repo of terms and conditions, and how they change between now
and the end of the XG. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-52
- Describe/implement a git repo of terms and conditions, and
how they change between now and the end of the XG. [on Mischa
Tuffield - due 2009-07-15].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> 15th is open for a
speaker</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ACTION
<strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> : hhalpin to contact eran to talk,
also about LRDD and XRDS-Simple</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> have sent email to Aron
about LRDD</p><a name="action06" id="action06"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> hhalpin
to contact eran to talk, also about LRDD and XRDS-Simple
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I've updated the
schedule to show that Sam will speak on July 22 <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule</a></p><a name="action07"
id="action07"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> danbri to
find someone from Opera to talk Widgets [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p><a name="action08"
id="action08"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> danbri
and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging
and W3C. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p><a name="action09"
id="action09"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Renato
and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]</p><a name="action10"
id="action10"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> DKA to
invite Lars or Eric from Geolocation API to W3C Social Web XG
for context comm call [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> will ping people</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ack</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>PhilA2</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.alpsp.org/ngen_public/article.asp?aid=73515">http://www.alpsp.org/ngen_public/article.asp?aid=73515</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>PhilA:</cite> at conference with people
talking about mobile web and other speakers that talked alot
about social networking at a marketing tool</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>PhilA2</cite>> <a href=
"http://thewayoftheweb.net/">http://thewayoftheweb.net/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.absoluteradio.co.uk/">http://www.absoluteradio.co.uk/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>PhilA:</cite> shares page to Dan
Thorton, works for radio</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>PhilA2</cite>> Ros Lawler <a href=
"http://econsultancy.com/blog/2172-random-house-s-ros-lawler-on-widgets-and-web-2-0">
http://econsultancy.com/blog/2172-random-house-s-ros-lawler-on-widgets-and-web-2-0</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>PhilA:</cite> another speaker that stood
out, see shared link<br />
... either would be interesting to have as invited speaker with
regard to well funded agencies are doing with social
networking</p><a name="action11" id="action11"></a><p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>//www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> see <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule</a></p><a name="action13"
id="action13"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>PhilA2</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> PhilA to invite Ros lawler and/or Dan
Thornton to tallk about marketing through social media
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action15">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action15</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 5. Business of
Social Networks</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> DKA</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Dan???</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> cprey can you help share
your thoughts about work to do around business side ? .... part
of the work from the group needs to inform the community about
the benefits about the open social web ecosystem<br />
... as apposed to the wall garden approach<br />
... that was my thinking</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> dka recapped it very well
... wants work from group to have impact in a business
context</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> cprey: is this the
type of thing that is needed? <a href=
"http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed">
http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> would like to describe
some scenarios how a open social web could come about and in
what ways could it be beneficial to the bottom line</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>oshani</cite>> not sure if this is
really relevant -- but I see some interesting business related
user stories here : <a href=
"http://www.primelife.eu/images/stories/deliverables/h5.1.1-policy_requirements-public.pdf">
http://www.primelife.eu/images/stories/deliverables/h5.1.1-policy_requirements-public.pdf</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> would benefit by hearing
more from businesses on their concerns ... in what areas do
businesses wish to see more standardization<br />
... communication would be best to go both ways, us to listen
to them</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> mentioned the idea of
sharing the location information between mobile startups<br />
... have somebody speak about how they're extending xmpp but at
a business level if the ceo's got together and said it would be
beneficial for them to share location information<br />
... its an interesting overlap of both business and
technology</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/">http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
ask about oslo biz story</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> OSLO are a pretty
mysterious bunch.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> OSLO: <a href=
"http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/27/oslo-aims-to-break-down-mobile-social-network-barriers/">
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/27/oslo-aims-to-break-down-mobile-social-network-barriers/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> so it's these guys,
with xmpp etc? - <a href=
"http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/wiki/TechnologyChoices">
http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/wiki/TechnologyChoices</a>
<a href=
"http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/">http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> one thing that could be
missing from the use cases whats the best way to do data
portability from a business perspective</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>samcritchley</cite>> I think
Aka-aki and Nulaz are in OSLO</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> yes, I can confirm
that</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>samcritchley</cite>> couple of
others too</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> <a href=
"http://download.aka-aki.com/press/mitteilungen/EN/02232009_oslo_alliance.pdf">
http://download.aka-aki.com/press/mitteilungen/EN/02232009_oslo_alliance.pdf</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> to keep our work
grounded to the businesses</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/">http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> there some mentions of
the big social webs are sharing information</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> think its good to look
at little companies as well as the big companies ... activity
can happen a lot faster typically at the smaller companies</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> +1 to the importance of
the "little companies."</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> re opensocial and
w3c, see recent Wookie/Widgets proposal in the Apache
Foundation - <a href=
"http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser">
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mattroweshow</cite>> +1 for the
longtail</p><a name="action16" id="action16"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri circulate wookie proposal to
the xg [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action16">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action16</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-53
- Circulate wookie proposal to the xg [on Dan Brickley - due
2009-07-15].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> from a w3c perspective
want to make it easier to share data</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 7. # Portability
Task Force</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 7. Portability Task
Force</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF</a></p>
<p class='phone'>??: ought to be clear if charter says not
about creating new technology</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Here's this
sentence from the charter: "Our goal is to provide a forum
through which collaborations relating to social web standards
can be formed, and through which the results of practical
standards-oriented collaborations can be reported and
discussed."</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> think we should not
invent new protocols, was my idea from the start</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> Adam jsalvachua ==
petef</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> w3c isn't necessarily
about implementing new protocols</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> charter is written in
that way to share that the group wasn't necessarily about
creating something new</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> The task force
could always identify areas where it thinks new protocols are
needed, and then people from the TF could work outside the TF
and XG to create protocols that fit into those gaps.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> We can't prevent
people from informally making things :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> In fact, we want to
informally for people to get together!!!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> if members of the group
want to get together and invent things thats fine but be clear
of what your doing and be transparent regarding patent
policy</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> how can we start?
with a statement of whats out there right now?<br />
... to talk about new combinations</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>petef:</cite> thats sounds good</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> ok, petef and I
should start talking about this after summer when people are
more available</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> agree with overall sense
of things<br />
... but would like more detail ... would be great if this group
was able to generate excitement about making portability and a
practical plan to approach portability</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> danbri - what's
FOAF's role in this?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> would like to have
some sort of proof of concept of the ideas they are
developing</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mattroweshow</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I would also like
to see mappings between OpenSocial, XFN, vCard, and
PortableContacts to FOAF.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> With XML-based
formats, done via GRDDL.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> I don't want to draw
away from the useful discussion on data portability, but can we
have a section in this Task Force which explains what might be
business benefits of data portability?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> have something that
guides people with OpenSocial, FOAF etc</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> aside - <a href=
"http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/interview_with_tim_berners-lee_part_1.php">
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/interview_with_tim_berners-lee_part_1.php</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Might need Python
to sort of move contacts in various formats.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>AlexPassant</cite>> what about
mattroweshow work on mappings for social vocabularies ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsalvachua</cite>> i now more a
ruby guy :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I'm still in the
dark ages of python or perl!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> would like to learn what
the business benefits to the open data portability<br />
... maybe charging people when importing / exporting data</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> hmm <a href=
"http://wiki.dataportability.org/display/dpmain/Business+Case">http://wiki.dataportability.org/display/dpmain/Business+Case</a>
looks a bit work-in-progress</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Business case: if
you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers
the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site,
hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> one case might be to
have your smaller social site wanting to market about kite
flying and them using information from Facebook .. have an open
format for exchanging that data</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> and if you allow
export of data you encourage users to try your service without
fear of lockin or wasted effort</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Thanks for the link
DanBri!! very confirming</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> biz case of being
able to accept open data formats is fairly no-brainer; biz case
of unlocking user data is tougher ...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> of my suspicions</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> It would be nice if
these use-cases found their way into the use-case stories on
the wiki - anyone up for that?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> if social networks want
to start selling services to companies, the companies
themselves need to be able to control their data<br />
... and link to other sites that control their data</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> there are about 100+
companies who are already in teh business of business social
networks</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
"http://eliasbizannes.com/blog/2009/04/data-portability-and-media-explaining-the-business-case/">
http://eliasbizannes.com/blog/2009/04/data-portability-and-media-explaining-the-business-case/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> they are not
interested in companies being able to export their
data/leave</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> so my point was
summarised here: <a href=
"http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed">
http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> federated
directories?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> adam: we've been
talking mostly about use-cases involving marketing</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> adam: but how about
enterprise management</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> adam: when we want
to have our corporate social network reach out to others on
another corporate social network</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> adam: when we have
some agreement</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> do not have
documented case (user story) covering how enterprises can
benefit from data portability</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> adam: but we have
to respect privacy and security of this data.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> he's our scribe
today!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> DKA: really likes
adam's story</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsalvachua</cite>> i have a real
use case on this that we may have to implement, i will try to
write it.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Boeing's internal
stuff is really neat!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> yep</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> cool</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> does Sun have
similar story/use case?</p><a name="action17" id=
"action17"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> adam to write up the boeing use case
for enterprise social networks [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action17">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action17</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-54
- Write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks
[on Adam Boyet - due 2009-07-15].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes, sun has
similar use cases</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> emphasize CROSS
enterprise</p><a name="action18" id="action18"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to write up the social network
data exchange story [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action18">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action18</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-55
- Write up the social network data exchange story [on Harry
Halpin - due 2009-07-15].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> have a story for two
companies to collaborate<br />
... will try to expand on the use case</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> well it's not just
cross enterprise, there is also enterprise-individual,
enterprise-government, enterprise-university, inter university,
and all possible combinations :-)</p><a name="action19" id=
"action19"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> jsalvachua to write up business
use-case with the company he's been working with. [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action19">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action19</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
find user - jsalvachua</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ack me?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
discuss "code visits data vs data visits code" opensocial
pitch</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> wants to talk about
distinction google made when rolling out OpenSocial</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> tinkster - want to
write up the marketing use-case for the use-case document?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> hhalpin: as in
this? "Business case: if you enable import of contacts from
other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new people
signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get more
advertising revenue."</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> prior to those apis, a
lot of people thought about letting the data go .... google
said what about the data staying where it is such that a widget
stays where the data is and runs in a controlled
environment</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Yes, just add that
to the use-case story wiki</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> from businesses
perspective, its not just about freeing the data or keeping the
data but a little bit of both</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> ACTION Toby to add
user story along lines of... if you enable import of contacts
from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new
people signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get
more advertising revenue.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-56
- Add user story along lines of... if you enable import of
contacts from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry
for new people signing up at your site, hence get more users,
hence get more advertising revenue. [on Toby Inkster - due
2009-07-15].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> that's the question:
why would you ever want to free up this data?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> clap, clap</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>dandbri:</cite> there are 2 widget
platforms: w3c widget, other is OpenSocial<br />
... there is a new one in the Apache space called wookie trying
to bridge the two</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> echo
....</p><a name="action20" id="action20"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to write up widget business
tory [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action20">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action20</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-57
- Write up widget business tory [on Dan Brickley - due
2009-07-15].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> see <a href=
"http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser">
http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser</a>
for wookie proposal - w3c widgets meet opensoccial widgets</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> any other talk about
portability</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> re widgets and biz,
maybe i can mention - <a href=
"http://www.slideshare.net/danbri/introducing-joost-widgets-2007-talk-presentation">
http://www.slideshare.net/danbri/introducing-joost-widgets-2007-talk-presentation</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> question about people
contacting somebody at facebook regarding privacy</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> Chris Kelly, Chief
Privacy officer</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> might be able to poke a
contact there if have more information about what we would like
to ask of him<br />
... to have more context when contacting him</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> maybe an email
Q&A is best for him, initially?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> that's what I would
like (suggested)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> agreed</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mattroweshow</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> My feeling is that
we want to have him to talk to us at some point, but we can
probably only do that once so we need to have our questions
ready :)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> maybe a Q&A
interaction as a good first step</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> any updates on the
facebook privacy</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> don't have much more
detail other then articles shared<br />
... some people on both sides of the privacy fence</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i dont know
anything about it,</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mattroweshow</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/the_day_facebook_changed_messages_to_become_pulic.php">
http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/the_day_facebook_changed_messages_to_become_pulic.php</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> don't know enough about
the policy part, leave that to the experts</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> received some mix reaction
when shared it internally</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.scribd.com/doc/17010802/Facebook-Privacy-Presentation-July-1-2009">
http://www.scribd.com/doc/17010802/Facebook-Privacy-Presentation-July-1-2009</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>caribou</cite>> it's about audience
segregation, mainly</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/01/the-looming-facebook-privacy-fiasco/">
http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/01/the-looming-facebook-privacy-fiasco/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>PhilA2</cite>> +1 to DKA</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> you do get much segregation
even within the same country</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> q*</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ( many privacy
issues are highly counterintuitive - teenagers don't know about
probability and de-anonymising data )</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> in terms of what to ask
privacy officer of facebook, bouncing some ideas from what came
out of the privacy jungle discussion</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> also some ideas from
the C Petersen paper</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> why are social networks
de-empasizing privacy</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster</cite>> Privacy/Policy
Commons would really help here. Creative Commons makes
licensing really easy to understand: you can do this, you can't
do that. We need the same easy at-a-glance system for
privacy.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> <a href=
"http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf">http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>cperey</cite>> <a href=
"http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf">http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/10/22/putting_privacy.html">
http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/10/22/putting_privacy.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.fcw.com/Articles/2009/02/19/GSA-survey.aspx">http://www.fcw.com/Articles/2009/02/19/GSA-survey.aspx</a>
looks relevant but i don't know those folks</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>PhilA2</cite>> I spoke to one very
influential person in the online safety world recently who felt
that it would be human rights people, not children's advocates,
who would kill LBS</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>karl</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/privacy/">http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/privacy/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> do the portabilty group
want to have a task force meeting regarding getting some of
this together</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> probably start later
when the points are more clear</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Meeting
adjourned</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> adam to write up
the boeing use case for enterprise social networks [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action17">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action17</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri circulate
wookie proposal to the xg [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action16">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action16</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to write
up widget business tory [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action20">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action20</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to write
up the social network data exchange story [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action18">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action18</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> jsalvachua to
write up business use-case with the company he's been working
with. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action19">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action19</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to
describe/implement a git repo of terms and conditions, and how
they change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to
summarize josh and soren't talk [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> PhilA to invite
Ros lawler and/or Dan Thornton to tallk about marketing through
social media [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action15">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action15</a>]<br />
<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri and
karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging and W3C.
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to
find someone from Opera to talk Widgets [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to invite
Lars or Eric from Geolocation API to W3C Social Web XG for
context comm call [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to
contact eran to talk, also about LRDD and XRDS-Simple [recorded
in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Renato and
DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP [recorded
in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Sören to
propose addition to the template for user stories for conditions
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to
document developer stories on wiki. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<br />
<strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to
document developer stories on wiki. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
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$Date: 2009/07/14 16:04:20 $
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