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  <title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 18 Sep
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  <h1>- DRAFT -</h1>

  <h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>18 Sep 2009</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FourthF2FAgenda'>Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>Raphael, Michael, Guillaume, Davy, Silvia, Conrad, Yves,
      tmichel, franck</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Erik</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>Raphael</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>raphael</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">1. Wrap-up of F2F meeting Day
        1</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">2. Implementation</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">3. UA - Server communication and
        headers</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">4. Test Cases</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item05">4. Next steps</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item06">5. AOB</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 18 September
    2009</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; Scribe: raphael</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; Scribenick:
    raphael</p>

    <h3 id="item01">1. Wrap-up of F2F meeting Day 1</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> a number of emails have
    been sent this morning</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Frank:</cite> Jack proposed that we can
    have profiles<br />
    ... it could be reasonable, for clearly clarifying the degree
    of conformance from the implementations<br />
    ... useful for readability</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; i think having
    separate definitions for how to handle #, how to handle ? etc.
    is useful</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> I think this is useful
    too, but I'm not sure Profiles is the right terminology<br />
    ... agree in principle on the separation</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; I think the
    difference between # and query is substantial enough to define
    them separately</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I try to summarize the
    good cases, I count 3, see <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0091.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0091.html</a><br />

    ... does everybody agree with this view?</p>

    <p class='phone'>[silence]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <h3 id="item02">2. Implementation</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment#NinSuna_platform">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment#NinSuna_platform</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I'm starting with
    NinSuna</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://schutz.elis.ugent.be:8080/DownloadServlet/fragf2f.mp4">http://schutz.elis.ugent.be:8080/DownloadServlet/fragf2f.mp4</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://schutz.elis.ugent.be:8080/DownloadServlet/fragf2f.mp4?t=2">
    http://schutz.elis.ugent.be:8080/DownloadServlet/fragf2f.mp4?t=2</a>,9&amp;track='mp4_1'</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> the above URI is a valid
    working URI<br />
    ... we implement the query parameter<br />
    ... the new headers considered by the group are not yet
    implemented<br />
    ... the plan is to implement this part and consider the hash
    version</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; can it resolve
    fragments with # locally in the user agent?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; ok, so all # use in
    media fragments is still due to be implemented with NinSuna</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; looks like zakim is
    not fonctionning well. Will redial</p>

    <p class='phone'>?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; no</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; Yves, maybe we
    should ask w3c admin for help?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; I redialed the
    french number and I can hear you again ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> can you say a word about
    the parsing of the fragment syntax?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> not yet a full parser<br />
    ... we are progressing on that<br />
    ... implemented in JAVA so I could use Yves's parser</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> can you say a word about
    the extraction of the sequence and track on server side?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> yes, everything is indexed,
    so based on the index, we do a bytes range extraction</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; do you support the
    query-based temporal fragment requests for both HTTP and
    RTSP?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> we create then new mp4 and
    ogg headers for serving a new resource<br />
    ... only copy of existing bytes ranges are involved</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; davy, can you post
    an ogg url?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> for the temporal based
    selection of sequences, we also support rtsp<br />
    ... I'm working on a hash-based version for rtsp</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://schutz.elis.ugent.be:8080/DownloadServlet/fragf2f.ogg">http://schutz.elis.ugent.be:8080/DownloadServlet/fragf2f.ogg</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; could a normal
    webpage interact with your server?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I also think this is a
    VERY good work :-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; i.e. could somebody
    else write a client to interact with your server, Davy?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Implementation page
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; for the moment, only
    query based access is possible</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> it would be great to
    document the implementation issues</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> yes it is possible to write
    a client to interact with our server ... but to the extend of
    what we process<br />
    ... in the future, we plan to release an API<br />
    ... this API could be used to develop other front ends<br />
    ... such as requesting what are the existing tracks available
    before requesting them</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> very good, it is a bit
    like the URI Template suggested by Yves, that is, asking a
    server what it is capable to do</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> I think uri templates are
    great for this</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I think it is very cool
    and we should put together a web page for advertising<br />
    ... as a proof of interoperability</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> I have also an action to
    investigate how javascript can do that<br />
    ... it would be cool also to test existing implementations such
    as YouTube</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> the problem is that
    YouTube has not the same syntax</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> agree, but will have a
    look at that, also to improve the test suite</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> Davy, is your server
    publicly accessible?</p>

    <p class='phone'>Davy; yes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment#MP4Box_as_media_slicing_tool_for_Media_Fragment_Web_servers">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment#MP4Box_as_media_slicing_tool_for_Media_Fragment_Web_servers</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> now, talking about the MP4
    box, <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment#MP4Box_as_media_slicing_tool_for_Media_Fragment_Web_servers">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ImplementationExperiment#MP4Box_as_media_slicing_tool_for_Media_Fragment_Web_servers</a><br />

    ... this is a tool useful for Yves<br />
    ... the tool does not do any transcoding</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt;
    fragf2f.mp4#t=3,10&amp;track='1'</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> but can be used to extract
    tracks and temporal sequence</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; Michael: btw,
    this is the -&gt; <a href=
    "http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate-03">http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-gregorio-uritemplate-03</a>
    current draft of URI templates</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite>
    fragf2f.mp4#t=3,10&amp;track='1' will do the extraction</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> who is developing MP4box
    ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> this is an open source
    project<br />
    ... targeted at providing implementations related to MP4<br />
    ... very handy for MP4 files<br />
    ... handy for us, since it does NOT any kind of
    transcoding<br />
    ... we have contacts with this project but do not contribute to
    them directly</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> is this similar to
    oggchop ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.xiph.org/oggz/">http://www.xiph.org/oggz/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; oggzchop</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> so good news, we have
    now libraries for mp4 and ogg files for doing tracks extraction
    and temporal sequences extraction<br />
    ... any comment?</p>

    <p class='phone'>[silence]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> about HTML5
    implementation <a href=
    "http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html">http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html">http://new.annodex.net/~silvia/itext/mediafrag.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I'm thinking now of
    changing server and use Davy's server<br />
    ... it would be cool to see interoperability<br />
    ... it uses the existing capabilities of the browser<br />
    ... see my blog post for the technical details<br />
    ... Firefox has now implemented remote seeking on ogg
    file<br />
    ... this is not the same thing that when we talk about seeking
    with ?<br />
    ... Firefox makes a good guess of the correct bytes range to
    address<br />
    ... this way, we can simulate the behavior of the hash, just
    using the capabilities of the web browser<br />
    ... this is the purpose of this demo</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> great thing, are you
    willing to create a module for jquery?<br />
    ... I would be interested</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I'm not sure what would
    go in this pluggin</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> I need to look at your
    code ... and see what can be packaged in a pluggin<br />
    ... there are a lot of plugins for jquery out there<br />
    ... it would be great for the outreach</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> it is all available as
    Mozilla license, if you want to investigate<br />
    ... I'm not sure I will have time to look at what needs to be
    done for packaging it in a plugin<br />
    ... but feel free to do so<br />
    ... it uses oggzchop<br />
    ... it is dependent on firefox implementation<br />
    ... I think Phillip from Opera was interested in implementing
    that too, it would be cool</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://svn.annodex.net/itext/">http://svn.annodex.net/itext/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; for source code</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> URL of the code ? use
    github or bitbucket?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; Michael:
    another option would be Ubiquity command</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; ... see
    <a href="http://labs.mozilla.com/ubiquity/">http://labs.mozilla.com/ubiquity/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> jquery is interesting, as
    Ubiquity, I just don't have time</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-71?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-71 --
    Michael Hausenblas to investigate whether he could have an
    implementation in Javascript that does the client-side media
    fragments parsing -- due 2009-10-14 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/71">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/71</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> I have already my
    ACTION-71 ... I think I will dig into this and investigate the
    possibility of having a jquery plugin</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> it might be possible that
    Safari and Chrome have also this functionality</p>

    <p class='phone'>Last implementation: Guillaume, about
    Gstreamer and the python-gst library</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; can you hear me?</p>

    <p class='phone'>no</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; alright</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Guillaume:</cite> I look at Gstreamer
    and the python library<br />
    ... it can be used as a command line, or through API in a
    programmatic way<br />
    ... I will say what I manage to do and don't manage to do<br />
    ... it seems that transcoding is always involved?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; ... when you create
    a gstreamer pipeline, I am trying to get the fragment
    information through to the time in the pipeline where the byte
    ranges can be extracted without decoding</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Guillaume:</cite> the library interacts
    with the decoder, and locates the bytes ranges<br />
    ... we can ask gstreamer to feed us the raw data</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; ... however,
    gstreamer right now won't let me do it without decoding and
    re-encoding</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> ok, but for example, how
    do you convert #t=10,20 into a gst.event_new_seek(...) ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Guillaume:</cite> I don't have that
    yet<br />
    ... I was investigating what is possible to do with
    gstreamer<br />
    ... I wanted to know if gstreamer can give me back the bytes
    that correspond to this interval</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> how do you want to make
    progress on that?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Guillaume:</cite> I post some questions,
    that need to be answered</p>

    <p class='phone'>The questions that must be further
    investigated are:</p>

    <p class='phone'>* Which GST elements can handle seek
    events?</p>

    <p class='phone'>* What unit formats (time ns (nano seconds),
    frames, bytes, percents, buffers) are supported by each GST
    elements?</p>

    <p class='phone'>* Can all encapsulation specific demuxers
    handle time and bytes?</p>

    <p class='phone'>* Can SEEK events be translated higher up in
    the chain into BYTES on the filesrc SOURCE? Then we could still
    decode the media, find the actual part of the stream required,
    make sure a filesrc or uridecodebin in random access can point
    to the fragment of the media we need, and SINK that MF into a
    filesink.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Until now I haven't been successful in
    implementing the GST SEEK events on a variety of media types ;
    neither directly in C or in Python) with gst.event_new_seek(..)
    or gst_element_seek(..).</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Guillaume:</cite> who has experience
    with gstreamer?<br />
    ... Jack ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; Edward Hervey is the
    right person</p>

    <p class='phone'>Email ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; he knows gstreamer
    inside out and because he implemented the pitivi editor has
    come across all the fragmentation issues</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://blogs.gnome.org/edwardrv/">http://blogs.gnome.org/edwardrv/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Silvia, can you provide his email in /me ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; Michael: also
    relevant is <a href=
    "http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/09/supporting-facebook-share-and-rdfa-for.html">
    http://googlewebmastercentral.blogspot.com/2009/09/supporting-facebook-share-and-rdfa-for.html</a>
    - promoting audiovisual content rather than consuming it in the
    first place</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-90?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-90 -- Davy
    Van Deursen to provide a pointer to Yves to a lib he can use to
    slice media files -- due 2009-09-16 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/90">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/90</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-90</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-90 Provide
    a pointer to Yves to a lib he can use to slice media files
    closed</p>

    <p class='phone'>The MP4 box is the answer Yves :-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/images/9/92/Chop-sections.png">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/images/9/92/Chop-sections.png</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> there is also an ongoing
    action to update the grammar checker from Yves, as soon as the
    syntax evolves</p>

    <p class='phone'>great job guys</p>

    <h3 id="item03">3. UA - Server communication and headers</h3>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-69?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-69 --
    Conrad Parker to draw a representation of the general structure
    of a media resource, for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2
    + D3) -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/69</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-69</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-69 Draw a
    representation of the general structure of a media resource,
    for streamable formats (H/H' + K + D1 + D2 + D3) closed</p>

    <p class='phone'>The diagram is at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/images/9/92/Chop-sections.png">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/images/9/92/Chop-sections.png</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> explaining the
    diagram<br />
    ... the header packets can change, like the duration</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> re-ordering of the
    packets ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> this is coding-format
    dependent, in ogg, strict rules that the packets appear in
    order of time</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> the arrows are not about
    re-ordering, but about pointing to the last "i-frame"</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> will such a diagram help
    to explain what is going on in our document?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> this diagram or a similar
    one might help yes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; it also explains
    well what I tried to explain yesterday with the retrieval
    possibilities of a #t=12 request, where the result would start
    at t=11.85</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> we need to complement it
    with timestamps, and quantitative concrete values</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Conrad:</cite> yes</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> can you put the source
    and png in our cvs ?</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to provide CVS access to conrad
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-111
    - Provide CVS access to conrad [on Yves Lafon - due
    2009-09-25].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; I can provide a CVS
    access to conrad</p>

    <p class='phone'>please go ahead then Thierry</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> headers discussion
    ...<br />
    ... I feel we have various proposals on the table<br />
    ... regarding the use of the Range headers, or new custom
    headers</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; my proposals are for
    these 3 sets of headers: <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_HTTP_Communication#Conrad.27s_proposal">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_HTTP_Communication#Conrad.27s_proposal</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> what is documented in
    the current document and what Conrad has proposed</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; I am not even sure
    the proposals that we have are alternatives</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; I think they may be
    complimentary for the query and the fragment case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; time ranges has
    already been discussed yesterday</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; somebody definitely
    needs to compose it all together</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I volunteer to provide a
    digest ... anyone else to give it a try ?</p><a name="action02"
    id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to propose a digest of Conrad
    and current's proposal regarding the use of existing and custom
    headers for the communication UA server [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-112
    - Propose a digest of Conrad and current's proposal regarding
    the use of existing and custom headers for the communication UA
    server [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-09-25].</p>

    <h3 id="item04">4. Test Cases</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/rdfa-xhtml1-test-manifest.rdf">
    http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/testsuite/xhtml1-testcases/rdfa-xhtml1-test-manifest.rdf</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> quick update ... I know
    it is actually quite painful to create the final test
    cases<br />
    ... i wanted to automatized that</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/">http://rdfa.digitalbazaar.com/rdfa-test-harness/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> because it is not funny
    to generate the rdf files _manually_ from the wiki<br />
    ... Corrib is my solution: <a href=
    "http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/">http://ld2sd.deri.org/corrib/</a><br />

    ... if you click on the dashboard, you can see the tags and set
    some filters on the tags<br />
    ... first criteria would be the dimensions considered, and then
    the second criteria, the nature of the response (defined,
    undefined, etc.)<br />
    ... the filter works as string match on the whole table
    currently</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-108?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-108 --
    Michael Hausenblas to add the missing test cases in corrib --
    due 2009-09-16 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/108">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/108</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-93?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-93 --
    Michael Hausenblas to revisit the TC and see which are effected
    by the temporal-optional-comma-decision -- due 2009-07-29 --
    OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/93">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/93</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> at least identify the TC
    impacted ... this is the action-93</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> any questions ? is this
    what you expect to have ?<br />
    ... I will of course use it, I'm interested in feedback, what
    is missing ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; I think we need to
    get the existing test cases into it first and then we can see
    what we are still missing</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; I think it looks
    very promising</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; thanks ;)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> there is also a atom
    feed if you want to subscribe :-)<br />
    ... corrib works on product, so it can deal with the various
    version of MF ... 1st draft, 2nd draft, etc.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> amazing feature :-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jackjansen</cite>&gt; Hi everyone!
    (count on me being flakey: busy here)</p>

    <h3 id="item05">4. Next steps</h3>

    <p class='phone'>Accessible media workshop: <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0093.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0093.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> who will make TPAC ?</p>

    <p class='phone'>TPAC is in Santa Clara, CA, 2-6/11</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; i can't be there
    then</p>

    <p class='phone'>Erik will go to TPAC</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I might go there too if
    necessary</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> should we prepare
    something for the attendees in order to discuss with the groups
    there ?<br />
    ... we will have a 2nd WD published</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; it would be good to
    discuss in HTML5 WG</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; I will probably be
    at TPAC</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> target is to publish a
    2nd WD at the end of the month<br />
    ... we have a number of actions in the tracker<br />
    ... how much more planning can we do</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> your action is important
    regarding the syntax / header part<br />
    ... the other actions are clarification</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; If within the next
    2-3 weeks we can get everything watertight for temporal media
    fragments, I think that would be great progress</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; yay</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Motto:</cite> work hard to make it</p>

    <p class='phone'>Question: next meeting ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; keep going with the
    weekly meetings</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; see how far we get
    by the end of the year</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; Raphael: has a big
    concern about the turnout for every weekly meeting</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; how about a vote
    page with times like we did for this f2f time?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; ... is it a problem
    of the hour at which it is taking place?</p>

    <p class='phone'>Proposal for changing telecon time:</p>

    <p class='phone'>Wednesday, 09:00 AM TC</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; ok</p>

    <p class='phone'>3 hours earlier Silvia</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; ok - should work for
    me</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I meant, 09:00 AM
    UTC</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=17&amp;month=09&amp;year=2009&amp;hour=09&amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=0">
    http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=17&amp;month=09&amp;year=2009&amp;hour=09&amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=0</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; should check if
    Yves can make it</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=15&amp;month=09&amp;year=2009&amp;hour=09&amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=0">
    http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?day=15&amp;month=09&amp;year=2009&amp;hour=09&amp;min=0&amp;sec=0&amp;p1=0</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Need to check with Yves, and Jack</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>conrad</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; +!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>I will ask Yves and Jack</p>

    <h3 id="item06">5. AOB</h3>

    <p class='phone'>People wants to party</p>

    <p class='phone'>We need to publish in 3 weeks time max</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>franck</cite>&gt; Thanks, bye!</p>

    <p class='phone'>[adjourned]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; bye! and thanks!</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to propose
  a digest of Conrad and current's proposal regarding the use of
  existing and custom headers for the communication UA server
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to provide
  CVS access to conrad [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2009/09/18 09:49:36 $
  </address>

  <div class="diagnostics">
    <hr />

    <h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
    before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
    <pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/targetted/targeted/
Succeeded: s/Harvey/Hervey/
Succeeded: s/query/request/
Succeeded: s/identified/identify/
Found Scribe: raphael
Inferring ScribeNick: raphael
Found ScribeNick: raphael
Default Present: raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, Gui, conrad, tmichel, franck, +61.2.800.5.aabb, silvia, +33.4.93.00.aacc
Present: Raphael Michael Guillaume Davy Silvia Conrad Yves tmichel franck
Regrets: Erik
Agenda: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FourthF2FAgenda">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FourthF2FAgenda</a>
Found Date: 18 Sep 2009
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/18-mediafrag-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: troncy yves

</pre>[End of <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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