28-mediafrag-minutes.html
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 28 Jan
2009</title>
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>28 Jan 2009</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jan/0061.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Erik, Raphael, Yves, Thierry, Michael, Jack, Silvia,
Davy, conrad_(irc)</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Erik</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Jack</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">1. Admin</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">3. Working Draft</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">4. issues</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<h3 id="item01">1. Admin</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1 for accepting
minutes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> minutes accpeted?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>all:</cite> yes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html">http://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/meeting.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> should we change meeting
slot for Dave?<br />
... for now lets keep it as-is</p>
<p class='phone'>yes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Michael:
volunteers to review the MA doc</p><a name="action01" id=
"action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> michael to review Use Cases and
Requirements for Ontology and API for Media Object 1.0
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-36
- Review Use Cases and Requirements for Ontology and API for
Media Object 1.0 [on Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-02-04].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> agenda item 2, future
participants</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> blinx will not
join.<br />
... teleconf with dailymotion soon</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> wolfgang is interested,
could be invited expert.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Wolfgang Jochum</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> mixup of wolfgangs.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> ah! Will ask him
today</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> no progress on google</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> close ACTION-1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-1 Contact
Google AC Rep re member of MediaFrag WG till next week
closed</p>
<p class='phone'>close action 1</p>
<p class='phone'>close action 17</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> close ACTION-17</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-17 Find out
with Philippe who from Google would be interested to join
closed</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> will do final attempt for
cisco<br />
... also get guillaume on board again</p>
<h3 id="item02">3. Working Draft</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> agenda item 3</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> template is ready, will
email details</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> short:
media-frag-reqs</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> as already
mentioned re ACTION-32 ... I can contribute as well to support
you ... in case I've CVS access (got my CVS account set up for
W3C ;)</p>
<p class='phone'>close action 33</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> if cvs access does not work
mail me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Discussion about
the syntax</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> close ACTION-25</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-25 Describe
why smpte is the only frame accurate one closed</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Jack: we need SMPTE
for frame accuracy</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Dave: we only need
rational numbers</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1 with Jack for
having SMPTE timecode only</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> rational numbers not used
often<br />
... smpte is better</p>
<p class='phone'>close action 25</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-25 Describe
why smpte is the only frame accurate one closed</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> on to action 27, units
to use (pixels, cm, inch, etc)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> will work on it</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Results: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXSEPARATOR/results">
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXSEPARATOR/results</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> nothing done yet on 28</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> 6 for ampersand, 1
for semi-colon</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> separators.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> there is a bit of an
issue with thousands separators. Let's state we do not use
them.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> +1 to not using
thousands separators</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Jack</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> primary separator: 6
votes for &, one for ;<br />
... others please vote<br />
... reololution: primary separator is ampoersand</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> RESOLVED: primary
separator will be the ampersand character</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Second poll:
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXRECTANGLE/results">
http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXRECTANGLE/results</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> rects has silvia as
odd-man-out</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> css does not use xywh. it
uses trbl</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> in email I said we
should allow trbl and xywh</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: primary
separator will be the ampersand character</strong></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> maybe do all</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> lets do all for the
first wd<br />
... let the community decide</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> raphael: I suggest
to put in the WD the various possibilities, and let the
community decide</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> next poll results:
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXQUOTE/results">http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/42785/MFRAGSYNTAXQUOTE/results</a></p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: will do
all 4 schemes for the first working draft and let the community
decide</strong></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> next one: the quotes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> just for the
record, as I guess we will not be able to approach agenda item
4 today anymore</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> I've created an
issue now for the registry stuff, see <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> like & ->
&amp; " -> &#XX;</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> double quotes are not
allowed in urls according to spec.<br />
... will also check for &, while we're at it</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> everybody says optional,
except michael.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> not too strong an
opinion. I'm fine with optional</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: quotes
are optional. Single or double tbd</strong></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> ampersand is allowed
(unlike double quote)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> sub-delims = "!" /
"$" / "&" / "'" / "(" / ")"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> / "*" / "+" / "," /
";" / "="</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> gen-delims = ":" /
"/" / "?" / "#" / "[" / "]" / "@"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> sub-delims = "!" /
"$" / "&" / "'" / "(" / ")"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> / "*" / "+" / "," /
";" / "="</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt">http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> raphael thinks that
Silvia said that double quotes are simply forbidden as per
RFC3986</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: we use
only single quotes as double are not in uri
construction</strong></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> will send wrapup of
feedback to list (<br />
... action 22 can be closed</p>
<p class='phone'>close action-22</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-22 Complete
the table, trying to get the answer for the current question
marks, except when this is a close format closed</p>
<h3 id="item03">4. issues</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> discussion about
ISSUE-1: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/1">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/1</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> summarizes mail
discussion, we want scenario 3</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Agenda:
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jan/0061.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Jan/0061.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> violently agrees with
silvia</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> will
summarize</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> raphaël to summarize clip-combining
discussion [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-37
- Summarize clip-combining discussion [on Raphaël Troncy - due
2009-02-04].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ISSUE-2: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/2">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/2</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ISSUE-2 What is
the mime type of a media fragment? What is its relation with
its parent resource? notes added</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> on to mime types for
fragments</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Michael:
question is blurry, for me more issues, I've created ISSUE-3 re
the registry part of it</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Yves: when we
create a new representation (new mime-type), we create a new
resource</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>yves:</cite> new mime-type means new
resource</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> sounds good</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> ISSUE-3:
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ISSUE-3 Does our
MF URI syntax imlpy that we need to update MIME Type
registrations? notes added</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> this goes beyond our
scope</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> registry is not
possible since we do not own the mime types jpg, jpg2000, avi,
mov, etc.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> but if we follow specs
to the letter we must.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> <a href=
"http://example.com/image.jpg#trbl=2">http://example.com/image.jpg#trbl=2</a>,4,4,6</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>michael:</cite> need to show we have
addressed this issue (even if by ignoring it because we cannot
fix it)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Silvia: temporalURI
had the same problem ...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Silvia: we did that
for ogg because we own the format</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> scribenick:
raphael</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I do not agree we have a
problem here ... we have discussed that from the beginning</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> we have 2 different
opinions<br />
... I think Raphael said 'we do not care'<br />
... and I say we should care</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I said, we stick in the
general framework of RFC3986, unspecified semantics</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> should we write a
paragraph to state what we aim for ?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> yes, I volunteer to do
draft that</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Michael: sorry
for missinterpreting Raphael, ack his wording</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p><a name=
"action04" id="action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to draft a paragraph that will
solve ISSUE-3 [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-38
- Draft a paragraph that will solve ISSUE-3 [on Michael
Hausenblas - due 2009-02-04].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Michael: notes
to himself re action 4 that he needs to include the sentence
'we don't own specs, so general case applies;</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> [adjourned]</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to draft
a paragraph that will solve ISSUE-3 [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> michael to review
Use Cases and Requirements for Ontology and API for Media Object
1.0 [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael to
summarize comnining time clipping dicsusion [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphaël to
summarize clip-combining discussion [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/01/28-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
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$Date: 2009/01/28 13:56:56 $
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