07-mediafrag-minutes.html
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 07 Jul
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>07 Jul 2010</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jul/0023.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/07/07-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Raphael, Davy, Philip, Yves</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Silvia, Erik, Jack</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>raphael</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>raphael</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">1. Admin</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">2. Specification</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">3. Save as Use Case</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">4. AOB</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 07 July
2010</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>foolip</cite>> the bridge just
keeps hanging up on me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>foolip</cite>> UK and France</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>foolip</cite>> ok, that worked</p>
<h3 id="item01">1. Admin</h3>
<p class='phone'>Approved minutes of past telecon</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/23-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/23-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/06/30-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>dvdeurse</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>minutes accepted</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>foolip</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>This will be last telecon for this summer</p>
<p class='phone'>Next telecon will be 25/08</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> scribe: raphael</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> scribenick:
raphael</p>
<h3 id="item02">2. Specification</h3>
<p class='phone'>Discussion about parsing name values pairs</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> name values pairs unknown
should it be ignored ?<br />
... and how we manage percent-decoding</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jul/0024.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jul/0024.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> axissegment =
anysegment *( "&" anysegment )</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> my intention is to say
that anysegment is timesegment, spacefragment, trackfragment,
or unknown fragment</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.example.com/foo.mov#foo=bar">http://www.example.com/foo.mov#foo=bar</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> but this does not work
either since there is the problem of percent decoding<br />
... I'm fine with <a href=
"http://www.example.com/foo.mov#foo=bar">http://www.example.com/foo.mov#foo=bar</a>
not be a media fragment</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> the issue is more if the t=
is percent encoded<br />
... I suggest to do this first step normalization step, doing
at least percent-decoding of characters that are not delims,
sub-delims, and other non-safe characters.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> problem of the + sign in
the timezone<br />
... it seems to me very complex while what I propose seems
simpler<br />
... the spec is currently contradictory<br />
... since the grammar says that arbitrary name value pairs is
not valid</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> how do you manage
extensibility</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> do we really want
extensibility?<br />
... I'm not sure it is desirable</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> her position "I
personally believe they should be valid, since our discussion
was</p>
<p class='phone'>always that we would ignore name-value
parameters that the UA (or the</p>
<p class='phone'>server) doesn't understand.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> the example was: <a href=
"http://www.example.com/football.movie#t=10">http://www.example.com/football.movie#t=10</a>,20&action=track</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> I'm not for being
completely open to extensibility</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> you speculate a lot on
what people could add after the # but should we really care
about this ?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I notice clearly a
disagreement in the group currently</p>
<p class='phone'>Yves's position is that for any unknow name
values pair, the entire fragment sould be ignored</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> which is not clearly the
position of Philip, and I think not what Silvia is thinking
too</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I understand Yves'as
argument about I'm also concerned by the lack of forward
compatibility</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> the current syntax is too
strong on my opinion, so I don't want to have it normative</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> it is to be on the safe
side for me to forbid unknown name value pairs</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> other problem is
%-decoding<br />
... to we want to allow %-encode of t</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> yes, but then you're
generic and don't need to treat track and id as special
cases</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt">http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt</a>
=> 2.4. When to Encode or Decode</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> I suggest to add a
paragraph in section 4.1<br />
... explaining a normalization step</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> %74=10,20</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> normlziation phase
=> t=10,20</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> track=foo%3dbar</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> normalization phase
=> track=foo%3dbar</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> track foo%3dbar</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> foo=bar</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> I don't see the value of
this pre-process step</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> we first need to extract
the name value pairs<br />
... before making the URI %-decoding step</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Philip:</cite> we should first do
parsing of arbitrary name value pairs<br />
... and then process those name value pairs<br />
... we then interpret the unicode syntax that results of the
%-decoding of those pairs</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1 to Philip, this is
also the way we parse fragments in our player</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> I agree that this is a way
to do it ... but this will not be my way, I would implement it
differently</p>
<p class='phone'>close ACTION-182</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-182 Include
summary into wiki page closed</p>
<h3 id="item03">3. Save as Use Case</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>foolip</cite>> raphael, I have to
run for lunch, are we done discussing "my" issue?</p>
<p class='phone'>yes foolip, until September where we will
discuss the issue again</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>foolip</cite>> ok, thanks all!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> and before on the mailing
list</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I think we should save the
whole media</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> save as the whole page ...
would mean to save the html, the css, and the media _fragment_
(only the bytes downloaded)<br />
... save as the media would mean save the entire media file</p>
<p class='phone'>Chris question: Is it expected that for every
URL request with a fragment that matches</p>
<p class='phone'>the syntax of media fragments that the user
agent will attempt to send</p>
<p class='phone'>the Range header?</p>
<p class='phone'>YES</p>
<p class='phone'>I'm going through <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jun/0099.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Jun/0099.html</a></p>
<h3 id="item04">4. AOB</h3>
<p class='phone'>I will answer Chris</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
[End of minutes]<br />
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$Date: 2010/07/07 10:29:00 $
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