07-swcg-minutes.html
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<title>W3C SW Coordination Group Telco -- 07 Apr 2010</title>
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<h1>W3C SW Coordination Group Telco</h1>
<h2>07 Apr 2010</h2>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swcg-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Tom, Michael, Sandro, Chris, Manu, Scott, Ivan, Raphaël, Joakim</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Ivan</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Tom</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Admin</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Media Annotation WG update</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">Media Fragments WG Update</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu-work</cite>> <a href=
"http://connectedmediaexperience.org/">http://connectedmediaexperience.org/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Introductions:</cite> MichaelH, ManuS,
Raphael, Tom, Scott, ChrisW, Joakim...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> senior associate at
Ericsson, Sweden, works with multimedia indexing - co-chair
media annotation WG<br />
...Introductions: Sandro (and of course Ivan)</p>
<h3 id="item01">Admin</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>ivan</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/03/10-swcg-minutes.html">minutes of
last meeting</a></p>
<p class='phone'>Resolved: minutes from 2010-03-10
accepted.</p>
<p class='phone'>Next meeting: 2010-04-21</p>
<h3 id="item02">Media Annotation WG update</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> Have been working for 1.5
years, now close to Last Call for our ontology and API
spec.<br />
... More or less successfully managed to map 20 formats and
core set of ?20 attributes<br />
... Want to make sure we have not missed any. Want to specify
"exact", "close", "related".<br />
... We also consider datatypes. Not trivial.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu-work</cite>> URL to latest
editors draft?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> We have mapping table.
Recently query from BBC re: RDF implementation of
ontology.<br />
... Many are keen on SW technologies, so Task Group in group to
pursue this as parallel activity - not in charter.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Ontology for Media
Resources 1.0: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-mediaont-10-20100309">http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-mediaont-10-20100309</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> API for Media
Resources 1.0: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20100309">http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-mediaont-api-1.0-20100309</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> Working on API defined
with Web ADL</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Use Cases and
Requirements document: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-media-annot-reqs-20100121">http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/WD-media-annot-reqs-20100121</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> put out current specs -
have review from Opera and others.<br />
... would like to have review process finished in order to hold
Last Call in April or May</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> manu-work, you wanted
to ask about Connected Media Experience.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Manu:</cite> Does the MA prefix in
section 4.1.2. map to a known URL, described by RDF document -
do we expect people would be able to use this ontology
directly?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Ivan:</cite> Use ma:creator or
dc:creator?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> Spec currently in prose,
so no RDF implementation or defining a namespace. Currently not
on the agenda. Will not be part of the recommendation.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Ivan:</cite> Doesn't tell me how to add
metadata in RDF.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Tom:</cite> Jisc undertook a vocabulary
mappiung framework, how does it relate?<br />
... i am unusure about what mapping initiatives try to
achieve<br />
... do you know about that?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> I did not know about that
initiative<br />
... reference?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mscottm</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.jisc.ac.uk/">http://www.jisc.ac.uk/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>TomB:</cite> my general question is:
from a sw point of view we have a landscape of vocabularies,
and now we have these mapping initiatives<br />
... and the question is what the function of those mappings is
supposed to be</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu-work</cite>> Vocabulary mixing
is also going to become very prevalent when RDFa 1.1 hits the
web next year.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>TomB:</cite> is it something that
augments the use of distributed vocabularies, or does it
replace them?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> we did discuss that<br />
... some members would like to see a specification with
rdf<br />
... it is still not excluded</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>TomB</cite>> Joakim: Some members
want to see RDF implementation but still not excluded - would
be like a slice</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> Another common
question: how does it relate to DC? At time DC was developed -
there is no semantics of relationships to other
attributes.<br />
... Our attributes could be viewed as a vocabulary. We have
attributes that are terms. Very easy to make ontology - the
long-term purpose.<br />
... We have semantic relationships in place. But group did not
want to demand a technology in the implementation - would make
it less useful.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu-work</cite>> <a href=
"http://connectedmediaexperience.org/technicaloverview.html">http://connectedmediaexperience.org/technicaloverview.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Manu:</cite> New standard being worked
on that has strong overlap with Media Fragments - express
music, television, movies, on Web in standard way - using RDF
as base mechanism</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> So this is basically a
mapping and the working group is asking how to represent and
whether it should be implemented somehow. Explicit RDF, SKOS,
etc?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> Good summary.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu-work</cite>> Joakim, Raphael:
my e-mail: msporny@digitalbazaar.com - follow up with me after
the telecon.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Scott:</cite> In meantime, re:
participating in W3C, in Health Care - seen other groups being
created. Question: Specific apps that will help improve uptake
of your work? Barriers to uptake?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> Two scenarios: one
implemented in browser, another as Web service (if you are a
metadata aggregator)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Scott:</cite> Do you see need for provenance for
metadata?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu-work</cite>> Provenance
shouldn't be their problem, right?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu-work</cite>> it's in a
different layer?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joakim:</cite> not mentioned in spec,
but should be covered by different layer.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu-work</cite>> yes, that's right
Tom.</p>
<h3 id="item03">Media Fragments WG Update</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> My Slides: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/talks/2010-04-07/">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/talks/2010-04-07/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Spoke to CG one year
ago. 15 active participants.<br />
... Goal: URI-based mechanism for identifying media fragments
on Web.<br />
... We spent several months on use cases.<br />
... Slides 4 and 5 are user stories.<br />
... People who want to share delimited sequences of videos and
get URI to share via microblogging<br />
... Lena wants to browse audio tracks of videos - not send all
tracks over wire, but select tracks for display<br />
... refer by name to particular chapters ...<br />
... Slide 7: Media Fragment URI Syn tax for Time, Space, Track,
and Name<br />
... API in Javascript - browser can find out what tracks are
available<br />
... Track and Name are trickier, especially Int'ln
problems<br />
... Slide 8: Normally, hash is stripped out before sending to
sever.<br />
... will slightly change...<br />
... we foresee smart agents that do not throw out hash, but
encode into HTTP headers<br />
... in order to serve fragments requested<br />
... current browsers will just ignore - not break.<br />
... Slide 9: http request, smart user agent can make
mapping<br />
... can expose response<br />
... Slide 10: what is sent back is just the bytes corresponding
to the sequence<br />
... with HTML5 browser<br />
... Slide 11: user needs server help. Custom units can be used
in range requests.<br />
... will extract bytes and send back with 206 partial
content<br />
... mapping between time and bytes, packages sent back to
users.<br />
... Slide 13: Optimization of Recipe 2. Question in seconds,
answer in bytes.<br />
... win cachability with this recipe<br />
... Slide 15: optimization, different - request expressed in
seconds, but serves multi-part response - not just bytes
corresponding to sequence, but playable response</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>ivan</cite>> worked for me,
highlighting raphael:-)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Slide 16: Demo. Click on
Media Fragments player. Click on GO. Can just play sequence
that is highlighted.<br />
... click on Silvia's experiment with HTML5 and Javascript.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>ivan</cite>> that one does not work
in safari:-(</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> implementations in
pipeline for HTML5<br />
... normally should work with Safari, Opera, Chrome,
Mozilla</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Manu:</cite> Is this something we are
expecting Apache and IIS teams to pick up and implement, or
expecting modules that Apache uses? How do we expect this to be
used in field?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Currently talking with
Squid (proxies) - hope to have Apache modules. Would be
codec-dependent.<br />
... would aim at good coverage of major formats.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>manu-work</cite>> This would be
very useful for <video> and <audio> tags in
HTML5.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Ivan:</cite> On client side, talking
with browser vendors? Opera in WG, impelementing. Longer-term,
will be native. Mozilla patch. Apple is in WG.<br />
... Imagine it will be supported.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> We are in close touch with
HTML5 working group.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> "Yes, will work with
fragments".</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Manu:</cite> Video and audio tags is
primary element targeted?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Targeting both, but any
URI you put in browser bar. Flash clients that can also handle.
Not just HTML5. But HTML5 really pushing.<br />
... HTML5 covering understanding hash fragments.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Scott:</cite> QuickTime versus
Flash? Do you see a problem?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> not really. Main problem
with both: plug-in within browser. So if looking in browser
environment, need communication with plug-in - security
issues.<br />
... Native audio and video HTML browsers handier to
implement.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Ivan:</cite> URI structure will give
additional structure for talking about fragments of media.</p>
<p class='phone'>Meeting adjourned - thank you Raphael and
Joakim.</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
[End of minutes]<br />
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$Date: 2010/04/07 14:18:35 $
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