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    <title>mawg -- 25 Nov 2008</title>
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  <body><p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src="http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C"
          border="0" height="48" width="72"/></a></p><h1>mawg</h1><h2>25 Nov
        2008</h2><p><a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0124.html">
      Agenda</a></p><p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/25-mediaann-irc">IRC
        log</a></p><h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2><div class="intro">
      <dl>
        <dt>Present</dt>
        <dd>ruben, tobiasb, veronique, pchampin, Felix, Ernie, jcraig, Wonsuk, Davy, Joakim, frank,
          Daniel</dd>
        <dt>Regrets</dt>
        <dd>Raphael, Hui, Werner, Thierry, Victor</dd>
        <dt>Chair</dt>
        <dd>Felix</dd>
        <dt>Scribe</dt>
        <dd>Joakim</dd>
      </dl>
    </div><h2>Contents</h2><ul>
      <li>
        <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
        <ol>
          <li><a href="#item01">Agenda review / approval of previous minutes</a></li>
          <li><a href="#item02">Selection of scribe for next meeting</a></li>
          <li><a href="#item03">Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time</a></li>
          <li><a href="#item04">Action items</a></li>
          <li><a href="#item05">Use case and requirements document structure</a></li>
          <li><a href="#item06">Features table from Ruben</a></li>
          <li><a href="#item07">Re-confirmation request from Daniel about the scope of our group</a></li>
          <li><a href="#item08">Layer structure discussion</a></li>
        </ol></li>
      <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
    </ul><hr/><div class="meeting">
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>frank</cite>&gt; hello everybody - frank on irc only</p>
      <h3 id="item01">Agenda review / approval of previous minutes</h3>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; I am on the call, can you hear me ? probably mic is
        some problmatic via skype...</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; felix: Joakim became co-chair</p>
      <p class="phone"><a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html"
          >http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html</a></p>
      <p class="phone"><a
          href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0124.html">
          http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0124.html</a></p>
      <p class="phone">minutes approved</p>
      <h3 id="item02">Selection of scribe for next meeting</h3>
      <p class="phone">handle via mail</p>
      <p class="phone">Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Next call 2 December</p>
      <h3 id="item03">Future telephone conferences and f2f meetings / call time</h3>
      <p class="phone"><a
          href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_Ghentf2f_2008">
          http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Meeting_Agenda_Ghentf2f_2008</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Felix plan to update agenda in next two weeks</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; can we ask who will be participating this upcoming
        f2f on the IRC ?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Update agenda on Wiki if you miss something</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; my mic is not working...:-(</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Ruben</cite>&gt; I will participate on the IRC</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>DrErnie</cite>&gt; What's the date/ time zone for the F2F meeting?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>cgi-irc</cite>&gt; I will participate on IRC</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; I will</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>tobiasb</cite>&gt; I will be in Ghent</p>
      <p class="phone">I will</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; I will also be in Ghent</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>wonsuk</cite>&gt; I will</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>DrErnie</cite>&gt; sorry, too early for me. :-)</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; not sure yet</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; if I do, that will be on IRC</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>frank</cite>&gt; I will be in Ghent too</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Ruben</cite>&gt; Victor will be in Ghent representing the "UPC gang"</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <h3 id="item04">Action items</h3>
      <p class="phone"><a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open">
          http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open</a></p>
      <p class="phone">ACTION-20 - ongoing</p>
      <p class="phone">ACTION-22 - ongoing, waiting for Karen</p>
      <p class="phone">ACTION-32</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; not yet, I will do asap</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; ongoing</p>
      <p class="phone">ACTION-33 - ongoing</p>
      <p class="phone">close ACTION-37</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-37 Write a mail about the general
        structure of the use cases / req document closed</p>
      <p class="phone">close ACTION-38</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-38 Draft a first agenda for the f2f
        meeting closed</p>
      <p class="phone">close ACTION-39</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-39 Put description about transmission cc
        in Wiki closed</p>
      <p class="phone">close ACTION-40</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-40 to send around an exemple of what she
        means with "plugging into complex model" closed</p>
      <p class="phone">close ACTION-41</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-41 Look into the MPEG API closed</p>
      <h3 id="item05">Use case and requirements document structure</h3>
      <p class="phone"><a
          href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0100.html">
          http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0100.html</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; it is fine with me</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Ruben</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>wonsuk</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>tobiasb</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; the structure wold be clear</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; one think that I have a direction is to make a
        usecase&amp;req draft as simple as possible</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Veronique can make the change to new documetn
        strucutre</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; Me and Wonsuk will change the structure</p>
      <h3 id="item06">Features table from Ruben</h3>
      <p class="phone"><a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/FeaturesTable">
          http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/FeaturesTable</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Lets spend time on document during f2f</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>frank</cite>&gt; +1</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; it's very useful. yes we will be able to spend much
        time for this discussion in Ghent</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Ruben commented the feature table</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; I think a line may be missing from the table</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; The table can serve as a template for everyone to
        edit</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; One line might be missing: the issue of annotating
        fragments</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Or is it realted to the Media fragments group?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; are there description properties that are valid
        only for fragments of media documents?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Ruben</cite>&gt; like SegmentDecomposition in MPEG-7</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Ruben thinks media fragments should be considered</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Identify fragments such as charcaters or an emotion
        in a scene</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Ruben</cite>&gt; Well I did not say that, I'm just trying to
        understand Pierre-A...</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; exchange metdata independent of the media</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Pierre-Antoine Champin will summerize his thoughts</p>
      <h3 id="item07">Re-confirmation request from Daniel about the scope of our group</h3>
      <p class="phone"><a
          href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0111.html">
          http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0111.html</a></p>
      <p class="phone">"The main focus of our group is video. We are also looking into other</p>
      <p class="phone">multimedia vocabularies, including ID3. However, I cannot tell (yet) to</p>
      <p class="phone">what extend these will be taken into account."</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; my thought is. video (and partially audio) is
        in-scope, music/image/text is out-of scope, any thoughts ?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; sorry, I can't speak out using mic yet...pls be
        patient</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; why would image and music be out of scope
        (particularly if audio is in scope)..</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>frank</cite>&gt; what daniel wants to say is: we focus on temporal
        media only?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; I agree with video as a priority</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Felix: Video is in the center, but we might take
        other modalities into account</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>frank</cite>&gt; audio should really be in there</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; but audio and images standards are quite close
        on some aspects</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; that's why I do not see images as "out of scope"</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; just trying to make a clear definition of *video*</p>
      <p class="phone"><cite>joakim:</cite> think we should also images into account, since there
        are many image files available. Would be not good to disregard them</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; I agree with Joakim's concern, yeah seems to be
        also complex. I'd propose an email discussion on the list later. I will post</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; OK, after email discussion, then I will wrap up
        that and go to f2f</p>
      <h3 id="item08">Layer structure discussion</h3>
      <p class="phone"><a
          href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Flat_syntax_for_structured_model">
          http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Flat_syntax_for_structured_model</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; P-A: Inorder to decide if we need strucutre or flat
        model we should construct a conceptual model first</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; We should decide if we need a syntax</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; in that case keep the syntax simple</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; We need a mixture of structured and flat model</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; A conceptual model could help avoiding repeating
        propoerties</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; we deicde based on the use case document</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt;
        <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/MXM"
          >http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/MXM</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Ruben</cite>&gt; Victor is not here</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; yeah, victor is not here, so let's move that on the
        mailing list or next call</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt;
        <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/TXFeed"
          >http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/TXFeed</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt;
        <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP"
          >http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; XMP review will be part of f2f agenda.</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt;
        <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0097.html">
          http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0097.html</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Flickr machine tags are interesting because they
        are flat</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Not using a name space but a prefix</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Should we investigate flickr machines tags closer?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt;
        <a href="http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-req/mediaont-req.html">
          http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-req/mediaont-req.html</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; the approach sounds interesting, even if images
        are not the primary focus of the WG</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; are somebody take this as a new ACTION ITEM ?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; i can do that</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; good,</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt;
        <a href="http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html">
          http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html</a></p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; ok, it's just boilerplate issue</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; last question before closing</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; are you all ok this call time ?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; well, it is quite late here...</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>wonsuk</cite>&gt; It's very early to me.</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; I saw may regrets since it's too late...what do you
        think ? shall we change ?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; OK, Joakim and myself will make some alternative
        for the call time</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; but there has been a vote about this schedule,
        no?</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>veronique</cite>&gt; ok</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; we can vote our schedule whenever we want...:-)</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; thanks, and see you next call</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Ruben</cite>&gt; Bye</p>
      <p class="irc">&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; minutes draft</p>
    </div><h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
    Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items --> [End of minutes]<br/><hr/><address> Minutes formatted by
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