07-swxg-minutes.html
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html lang='en' xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
<head>
<meta name="generator" content=
"HTML Tidy for Linux (vers 6 November 2007), see www.w3.org" />
<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 07 Apr
2010</title>
<link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
"http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/base.css" />
<link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
"http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/public.css" />
<link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
"http://www.w3.org/2004/02/minutes-style.css" />
<meta content="Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference" name=
"Title" />
<meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=
"Content-Type" />
</head>
<body>
<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
"http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C" border="0" height=
"48" width="72" /></a></p>
<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>07 Apr 2010</h2>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>tpa, MacTed, +1.781.416.aaaa, +0798919aabb, hhalpin,
+1.218.296.aacc, rreck, +41.79.436.aadd, +0797094aaee, petef,
melvster, mischat</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>hhalpin</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>rreck</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">1. Convene SWXG WG meeting of
2010-04-07</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Action Reminders</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">3. Final Report Update</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">future of w3c and rdf</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 07 April
2010</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Anyone want to
scribe?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Ronald?</p>
<p class='phone'>i can try</p>
<p class='phone'>im having phone issues</p>
<p class='phone'>please state who is talking when you talk</p>
<h3 id="item01">1. Convene SWXG WG meeting of 2010-04-07</h3>
<p class='phone'>can i do like half the scribing?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> scribe: rreck</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> danja: could you
be +39.058.368.aaff ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> oops</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> Zakim: 0798919aagg
is me</p>
<p class='phone'>it helps if people say who they are when they
speak</p>
<p class='phone'>but i wont be able to tell, which is my second
biggest problem</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> ping</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> ping</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hello</p>
<p class='phone'>yes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>> yes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to
approve [10]SWXG WG Weekly -- 31 March 2010 as a true
record</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> hmm...can't find
minutes URI.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Will put fixing
that on next agenda.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to meet
again Wed. April 14th</p>
<p class='phone'>+1 meet again</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Policy languages or
tagging</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> update on w3c meeting
discussing social web</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Apr/0001.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2010Apr/0001.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> harry's email sent
round today ^^</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> meetings with google
and...<br />
... need to clean up action items</p>
<h3 id="item02">Action Reminders</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> or purge them<br />
... adam not here</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> the minutes for
last meeting, doesn't seem to resolve : <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/10/03-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/10/03-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> cant purge it</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> mischa?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> not sure if they
have evolved...</p>
<p class='phone'>missed that</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> micha: to make a
git repository with terms and conditions to see if terms and
conditions and changed.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> So we'll keep this
open?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Yes.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yes</p>
<h3 id="item03">3. Final Report Update</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> We did get our
charter extension...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> had charter
extended<br />
... but we need to create draft final report<br />
... due at the end of this month<br />
... lets talk about this for 10-15 minutes then future
speakers</p>
<p class='phone'>lets do business first</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> +1 for final report
first</p>
<p class='phone'>me too</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> lets do final report,
im not on irc</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> christines document is
nice</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SocialWebFrameworks</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> thanks
christine!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> the idea was to
contribute this to the final report and is in the public
domain</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> new version?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> new version on
wiki?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> there is a slightly
improved version, any part anywhere is appropriate</p><a name=
"action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to email Renato and Christine
to take into final document [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-133
- Email Renato and Christine to take into final document [on
Harry Halpin - due 2010-04-14].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> there is a change in
vocabulary base on feedback</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> we need landscape
overview</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/OneLiners">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/OneLiners</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> perhaps <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/DiscussionTopics</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Hmm...looking for
other wikis.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> can we contrast
different landscapes in the final report</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> final report can link to
other documents but it should be self contained</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> visual picture of
how the various standards fit together?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> literal lanscape
picture</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> there references
then to the other pages/code/</p>
<p class='phone'>i dont hear anything except myself</p>
<p class='phone'>my irc is beeping, do you hear that?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SN_Platform_Functionality">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SN_Platform_Functionality</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> nothing there</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SN_Platform_Functionality">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/SN_Platform_Functionality</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> what parts are
needed?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> landscape and
picture is needed?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> landscape document</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> does anyone want to
take that on?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> i can help but need a
point person</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> perhaps I could
help with picture</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> I could help with the
picture</p>
<p class='phone'>thanks guys</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yay petef</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> !</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> yay
mischat</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> petef to help make picture of
landscape [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
find user - petef</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> pferne to help make picture of
landscape [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-134
- Help make picture of landscape [on Peter Ferne - due
2010-04-14].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> acki mischat</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> will we have usecases
in final report?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> the latter, the
technology space.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> technologies in
landscape picture?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> I assume that too</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> Please do hhalpin</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> forward those
diagrams</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> use-case
document</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> tpa? is that latest
version?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/RequirementsAndUseCases-WorkArea">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/RequirementsAndUseCases-WorkArea</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> wow</p>
<p class='phone'>im missing some stuff, sorry</p>
<p class='phone'>trim narrative</p>
<p class='phone'>some talk about refining document</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> put some stuff in
appendix?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> its pretty
solid.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> how many people know W3C
web architecture document?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/">http://www.w3.org/TR/webarch/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> well, anything with
a URI is a resource</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> so that would
include text, profiles, video, audio</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> anything that has a
URI as is retrievved by HTTP GET</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> video/audio/etc.
etc. are actually media types</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Uploading,
publishing user-generated text (blog post) with or without
tags</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Uploading,
publishing user-generated images (photos) with or without
tags</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Uploading,
publishing any user-generated resource with or without tags</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> set size and
simplify</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> boil it down to a
dozen...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hhalpin: are the
invited talks going to be included in the final report ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> yes, the invited
talks need to be summarized somewhat.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> maybe some
headings?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> in section 3</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I would say only a
few sentences.</p>
<p class='phone'>two ways to do this... summary of each lvl 2
section</p>
<p class='phone'>extracting important stories as a sample</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> section 3 headings
: <a href=
"http://mmt.me.uk/p/hVhvzh">http://mmt.me.uk/p/hVhvzh</a></p>
<p class='phone'>i dont know who is talking</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> rreck: that is
tpa</p>
<p class='phone'>ty</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> three main stories<br />
... final report will have entire usecase document<br />
... 2 or 3 sentences as summaries, bullet points</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 10 bullet point
with 2-3 sentences</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> and choose 2-3
stories</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> 1-2 lines on each story</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> which stories ?
these ones ? <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> agreed that is fine<br />
... its due at the end of the month<br />
... dont add more but look at the ones we have done</p><a name=
"action04" id="action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> tpa to write 2-3 sentences for each
story [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
find user - tpa</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> tanglade to write 2-3 sentences for
each story [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-135
- Write 2-3 sentences for each story [on Tim Anglade - due
2010-04-14].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> a lot of work went into some
of them but may not be useful as it is</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>christine:</cite> i will be back up
editor, i have to leave the call now</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> w3c is looking for
...have technologies the exist interested in
standarization?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests">
http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests</a></p><a name="action06"
id="action06"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to re-email some of the
invited talk people on possible future standardizati [recorded
in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-136
- Re-email some of the invited talk people on possible future
standardizati [on Harry Halpin - due 2010-04-14].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> what is the format of final
report?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> its loose</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> on the wiki?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> on wiki or...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> here's a draft page
to start cut and pasting things.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> and I have
automated scripts...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> let's just cut and
paste stuff into this page.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> is there an outline?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> problem, definition<br />
... usecase, technology landscape</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I think it should
go 1) Problem 2) Definitions 3) Use-Cases 4) Technology
Landscape 5) Future Standardization</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I'm happy to focus
on 4) and 5)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Tim takes on 3)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 1) and 2) fairly
straightforward manner</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> do people feel
comfortable?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> which we have about
3 weeks to finish</p>
<p class='phone'>silence</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> +1 to
comfortable</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> w3c wants to be
more....</p>
<h3 id="item04">future of w3c and rdf</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> make some of the
standard more lightweight and agile</p>
<p class='phone'>more lightweight</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/02/date_and_place_of_the_rdf_next.html">
http://www.w3.org/QA/2010/02/date_and_place_of_the_rdf_next.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/12/rdf-ws/">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/rdf-ws/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> This tension in the
XG and the general landscape</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> between RDF, XMPP,
and Atom as the baseline data format.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> for social web
work.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> mmm is xmpp is a
data format ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Chris Messina
activity streams - why he chose Atom and Pubsubhub?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> XEP and
Pubsubhubhub for realtime updating</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> <a href=
"http://activitystrea.ms/">http://activitystrea.ms/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> lost a lot of
people?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> grr</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> what happened
there.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>> woah, holy phone split
batman</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> we'll hold
on...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I'll just keep up
in IRC</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> anyways, there was
definite interest in improving the RDF and Atom story, perhaps
using Atom as some sort of RDF syntax</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> that could go into
section 5 perhaps</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tpa</cite>> <a href=
"http://machinesplusminds.blogspot.com/2010/04/ietf-and-membership-via-corporation.html">
http://machinesplusminds.blogspot.com/2010/04/ietf-and-membership-via-corporation.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> thanks!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> membership discuss about
alternatives</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.odata.org/">http://www.odata.org/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ")</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Odata work by
Microsoft?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Open Data
format</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> which is seemingly
a sort of alternative to RDF</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> lovely, very
similar, they even have bnodie type things</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Make a connection
between Atom and RDF world</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> <a href=
"http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2006-06-06/AtomOwl.html">http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2006-06-06/AtomOwl.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> <a href=
"http://djpowell.net/blog/entries/Atom-RDF.html">http://djpowell.net/blog/entries/Atom-RDF.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/atom-activity-01.html">http://activitystrea.ms/spec/1.0/atom-activity-01.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Activity-Streams
spec</p>
<p class='phone'>i can hear, but im lost</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> pubsubhub spec</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.3.html">
http://pubsubhubbub.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/pubsubhubbub-core-0.3.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danja:</cite> said a ton of stuff</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> rreck - just try
your best</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> sorry!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> let's model Atom
*inside* RDF</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> there has been lots
of work in the atom world, and the pubhubsub world</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> to a model of
Atom</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> the other is to
look at Atom itself as a way of serializing RDF.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> and providing
updates to changes in triple-stores</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RSS 1.0 to do
that</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> user has action</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> user [action]
possibly on a [subject]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> and that at least
in [actions] are given URIs.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> but you can imagine
being given URIs.</p>
<p class='phone'>sound reasonable to me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RDF/XML</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> danbri has been
working on sparql over xmpp to update triplestore</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> (in activity
streams)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> oops - further up</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> to go with IETF
over W3C?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> link mischat?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danja:</cite> W#C might be accused of
being heavy handed and forcing the use of RDF</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://danbri.org/words/2008/02/11/278">http://danbri.org/words/2008/02/11/278</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danja:</cite> work out mapping of RDF
and ATOM</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i recall a
atom+rdfa work</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>danja:</cite> seems like low hanging
fruit</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> atom+rdfa?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.slideshare.net/danbri/wai-talk-xmpp">http://www.slideshare.net/danbri/wai-talk-xmpp</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I've seen DataRSS
work...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> danbri talking
sparql + xmpp --- i think there is working code somewhere</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> O'Reilly
codezoo...RDF as payload in Atom.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> yeah, i think steve
has something</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yeah steve does
too</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> danbri: do you have
links to rdfa+atom ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> big difference
between having RDFa and RDF/XML in payload.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I guess RDF into
Atom as possible.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RDF model in Atom
as possible.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> named-valued
pairs</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> harry asks, does
anyone have any ideas around making RDF easily transports via
atom ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> quite unspecified -
some fairly arbitrary XML.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> all in <a href=
"http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4287.txt">http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc4287.txt</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> well google
yahoosearchmonkey's datarss maybe?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>halpin:</cite> nice if social web xg
explained why rdf is not always used</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> what is wrong with
rss1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> The Social Web XG
put a paper forwards?</p>
<p class='phone'>im sorry i have to leave the phone</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> well, you can put
turtle in atom payload</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i will take over
rreck</p>
<p class='phone'>thanks man</p>
<p class='phone'>im doing poorly anyway</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> links elements in
atom ... they might be able to used to put triples into
atom</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> re-presenting Atom
data as RDF or RDF model as Atom.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> not sure about
perfectly reversible translation</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>petef</cite>> I have to go. Bye
all.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> bye</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Probably not
RDF/XML community :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> community that uses
triples</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> odata is a
restatement of the rdf model</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> but XML has a lot
of mature transport mechanisms</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> and hence why
rdfxml is useful</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> albeit ugly</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> modelling atom in
rdf lets atom be put in triple store.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> does SPARQL 1.1
solve the same problems</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> doesn't</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> uploading data to
triplestores</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> this is a great
discussion</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> rdf lite ? link
danny?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn">http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/n3/venn</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> there's also:
<a href=
"http://webofdata.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/data-and-the-web-choices/">
http://webofdata.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/data-and-the-web-choices/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> oh crap, i
timezone'd out</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> mischat: rdfa is
quite a bit buggy</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ntriples</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey/smguide/faq.html">http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey/smguide/faq.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> search monkey ^^
dataRSS</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> which is
atom+rdfa</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danja</cite>> mischat : rdf lite =
my shorthand for rdf next step</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> ok</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> <a href=
"http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey/smguide/understand_datarss.html">
http://developer.yahoo.com/searchmonkey/smguide/understand_datarss.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> if turtle as a
payload could be solved as RDF?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> then why are you
talking about the serialisation</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> facebook for
example, said they looked at using rdf (i cant remember for
which feature), but found other choices less complicated</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> they bought
friendfeed which where rdfers</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> and then ff seemed
to simply vanish post buyout</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> agree hhalpin</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> agrred</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> which is what are
DataRSS @ yahoo are trying to do</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> existing streams
RDFize directly</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 1) transfer turtle
as a payload</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> no</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> not closely</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yeah</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 2) use the link
element to hook into RDF</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 3) directly RDF-ize
Atom at either input or output stage</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 4) Put RDFa into
Atom?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> maybe that</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>MacTed</cite>> facebook found
RDF/XML too complicated, as I recall ... more conflation of
model with serialization making the model unattractive</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> but talking about
"turtle", surely we should be able to send any RDF,
serialisation independent</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I imagine people
would want to scrape minimal amount of RDF out of Atom</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> not necessarily all
of Atom.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> examples would go
along way in grddl world</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> yes we don't have a
standard grddl transform for Atom - I tried a while back to get
consensus between the 3 or 4 we had out there, bu tno luck</p>
<p class='phone'>xslt is hard because its event driven</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> delete and
insert</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ok, I gotta run,
will try to draft something up</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>melvster</cite>> this is the
diagram timbl talked about: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/social/acl-arch.png">http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/diagrams/social/acl-arch.png</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> so we need more
standards</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> trackbot, end
meeting</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to email
Renato and Christine to take into final document [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to
re-email some of the invited talk people on possible future
standardizati [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> petef to help
make picture of landscape [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> pferne to help
make picture of landscape [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tanglade to write
2-3 sentences for each story [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tpa to write 2-3
sentences for each story [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
<address>
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2010/04/07 16:27:32 $
</address>
<div class="diagnostics">
<hr />
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Found Scribe: rreck
Inferring ScribeNick: rreck
Default Present: tpa, MacTed, +1.781.416.aaaa, +0798919aabb, hhalpin, +1.218.296.aacc, rreck, +41.79.436.aadd, +0797094aaee, petef, melvster, mischat
Present: tpa MacTed +1.781.416.aaaa +0798919aabb hhalpin +1.218.296.aacc rreck +41.79.436.aadd +0797094aaee petef melvster mischat
Found Date: 07 Apr 2010
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/04/07-swxg-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: hhalpin petef pferne tanglade tpa
WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.
</pre>[End of <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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