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  <p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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  <h1>- DRAFT -</h1>

  <h1>SV_MEETING_TITLE</h1>

  <h2>02 Feb 2010</h2>

  <p>See also: <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-irc">IRC log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>joakim, tmichel, tobiasb, pchampin, chris, Daniel,
      John_Strassner</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>SV_MEETING_CHAIR</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>pchampin</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">Agenda review and approval of
        previous minutes telecon</a></li>

        <li><a href=
        "#item02">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Jan/0057.html</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">Selection of scribe for next
        meeting</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">Presenation of new participants: John
        Strassner and Ashish Chawla</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item05">action items</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item06">Discussion a web based implementation
        of the test suite</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item07">library discussion</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item08">next next F2F in Vienna</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'></p>

    <p class='phone'>hi all</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; ok</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; on my way in
    again</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Chris is guilty!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; No no, we need
    him</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; scribe: pchampin</p>

    <h3 id="item01">Agenda review and approval of previous minutes
    telecon</h3>

    <p class='phone'>minutes of the last meeting approved</p>

    <h3 id="item02"><a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Jan/0057.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Jan/0057.html</a></h3>

    <h3 id="item03">Selection of scribe for next meeting</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Main_Page">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/Main_Page</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> any volunteer for next
    week (2010-02-09)?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> the scribe list is
    actually on the main page</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Daniel:</cite> we don't have a scribe
    for next week</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Thierry:</cite> I can't next week, but I
    volunteer for the following week (2010-02-16)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; right my rerets for
    next week.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; I will not be
    available either next week</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Florian:</cite> I will scribe next
    week</p>

    <h3 id="item04">Presenation of new participants: John Strassner
    and Ashish Chawla</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> I sent an email to the
    list<br />
    ... full professor in South Korea<br />
    ... chair or co-chair of several orga: IETF, IEEE...<br />
    ... autonomic(?) communications<br />
    ... expertise: knowledge engineering</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Somebody:</cite> ring, ring, ring</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; I will follow the
    phone conf through IRC</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>John:</cite> ... (covered by
    ringing)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; joakim is noisy
    ;-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; sorry for the
    noise</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> what is your interest in
    the WG?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>john:</cite> teaching graduiate level
    course on semantic reasoning<br />
    ... about 1/ covering various knowledge representations<br />
    ... 2/ decision making (inferencing)<br />
    ... e.g. using ontologies<br />
    ... 2 PhD students interested in knowledge engineering<br />
    ... worked for Motorola in the advance used of annotation<br />
    ... for context-aware functionality<br />
    ... I'm known for network management<br />
    ... but have never been satisfied by the tools used<br />
    ... so looking for better ontologies, better semiotics in the
    network management field<br />
    ... volunteer to take action items or participate in editing
    documents</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> thanks for joining</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>john:</cite> was invited by Daniel</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> is Ashish here?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> apparently not</p>

    <h3 id="item05">action items</h3>

    <p class='phone'>action-124?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-124 --
    Felix Sasaki to check - everybody responsible for a format: add
    a column describing syntactic information ("data types", see
    cable lab column "Type") to his table -- due 2009-06-16 --
    OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/124">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/124</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; ongoing</p>

    <p class='phone'>close action-196</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-196 update
    scribe list closed</p>

    <h3 id="item06">Discussion a web based implementation of the
    test suite</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> sent an email proposing
    to use XML as an input format</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> didn't have time this
    week to have a look at it</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-test-methodology-20100128/">http://www.w3.org/TR/2010/NOTE-test-methodology-20100128/</a></p><a name="action01"
    id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> pchampin to read and sumarize
    test-methodolofy for the group [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-208
    - Read and sumarize test-methodolofy for the group [on
    Pierre-Antoine Champin - due 2010-02-09].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Jan/0059.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2010Jan/0059.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> two problems for
    implementations:</p>

    <p class='phone'>1/ extract the legacy metadata from the
    original format</p>

    <p class='phone'>2/ map that metadata to the vocabulary</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> the testsuite should be
    about 2/</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; if we provide the
    legacy md in an artifical format the test will not be fair</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; I agree with joakim
    that the testsuite should be about 2/</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> I agree too</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; We wouldn't suggest a
    specific XML parser either to extract information from the XML
    metadata</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> but I don't think its
    is practical to separate the two in an implementation</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; so I dont think it
    would be good to specify specific software libraries for the
    embedded metadata</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> anyway, implementations
    will *have* to do 1/</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; indeed</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> assume that an
    implementation does the mapping correctly<br />
    ... but extracts the metadata in a wrong way<br />
    ... would we like it to pass the tests?<br />
    ... because in a real situation, it would not give the expected
    results</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> the metadata formats are
    various: XML-based, binary...<br />
    ... there are several cases to deal with</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; the test should deal
    with the md as in the "WILD!"</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> yes, but I suggest we
    provide "ecological" metadata rather than artifical
    metadata</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; I agree, it is the
    responsibility of the implementation to get the embedded
    metadata out a file and to map it accordingly</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; so this should be
    part of the testsuite</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; maybe we can make two
    different test suites, one for embbeded metadata and one for
    external metadata?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> I am favorable to
    providing the "extracted" metadata</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>florian</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> just for the
    implementors to check that they are extracting the metadata in
    a consistent way<br />
    ... but they are expected to run the test on the "real"
    format</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Should we provide
    the test with both media file and extracted md?</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>florian</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> furthermore, it would
    allow us to detect errors in the test suites</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; thierry?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> I like the idea, but
    will the W3C like it?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> I'll tell you when I
    have read the document</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Chris?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Chris can you call
    in again?</p>

    <h3 id="item07">library discussion</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> suggested that the
    Caliph project could be used to extract metadata</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> I had a quick look at
    their web page<br />
    ... it's interesting</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> the focus is on
    annotation<br />
    ... though they have support for extraction<br />
    ... and it is opensource<br />
    ... currently worling on cophir</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>florian</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://cophir.isti.cnr.it/">http://cophir.isti.cnr.it/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> photos from flickr<br />
    ... extract MPEG7 features<br />
    ... with a link to the image<br />
    ... we are working to setup a crawler<br />
    ... and also extract DC metadata</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> where do you get the
    MPEG-7 features?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> they are provided by the
    cophir testsuite<br />
    ... we could use this as a base for our testsuites<br />
    ... this is a student work, so I don't know when it will be
    finished</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Daniel</cite>&gt; Florian: what
    application this project is targetting for ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> just building the
    crawler<br />
    ... to provide the images with DC and MPEG7 metadata</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>daniel:</cite> what about exif?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> out of scope for the
    student, as exif can be extracted directly from the jpeg</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> so the task of the
    student is to fill in the gap?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; the semantic gap?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> yes, we extract legacy
    md from the flickr API, and map it to DC<br />
    ... and MPEG7 (?)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; not semantic
    gap!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> I'll write to Chris
    about it :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>florian</cite>&gt; Chris, we only use
    the id of an image to extract metadata using the flickr api -
    this extracted metadata will be stored in DC and
    MPEG-7</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> florian to share his image metadata
    with the group (when he has it) [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-209
    - Share his image metadata with the group (when he has it) [on
    Florian Stegmaier - due 2010-02-09].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; ok</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>florian</cite>&gt; and the IDs are
    stored in the COPHIR test suite wit the mpeg-7 low level
    features</p>

    <h3 id="item08">next next F2F in Vienna</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>florian:</cite> last week of april</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>daniel:</cite> we already had a straw
    poll, there should not be problems</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; I will
    participate</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>daniel:</cite> who is supposed to
    participate in the Seoul meeting?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tmichel</cite>&gt; to Seoul</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chris</cite>&gt; I will be there</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> will online presence be
    possible in Seoul?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tmichel:</cite> shall I reserve a phone
    bridge?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>daniel:</cite> yes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>joakim</cite>&gt; Chris will you join
    next telcon?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>joakim:</cite> we will discuss the API
    document next week</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> florian to share
  his image metadata with the group (when he has it) [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> pchampin to read
  and sumarize test-methodolofy for the group [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
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    $Date: 2010/02/02 13:01:59 $
  </address>

  <div class="diagnostics">
    <hr />

    <h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
    before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
    <pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20  
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/ergonomic/autonomic/
Succeeded: s/liek/like/
Succeeded: s/PROJECT/cophir/
Succeeded: s/crawelr/crawler/
Found Scribe: pchampin
Inferring ScribeNick: pchampin
Present: joakim tmichel tobiasb pchampin chris Daniel John_Strassner

WARNING: No meeting title found!
You should specify the meeting title like this:
&lt;dbooth&gt; Meeting: Weekly Baking Club Meeting


WARNING: No meeting chair found!
You should specify the meeting chair like this:
&lt;dbooth&gt; Chair: dbooth

Got date from IRC log name: 02 Feb 2010
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/02-mediaann-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: florian pchampin

</pre>[End of <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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