18-mediaann-minutes.html
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
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<title>Media Annotations WG -- 18 Nov 2008</title>
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<body><p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src="http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C"
border="0" height="48" width="72"/></a></p><h1>Media Annotations
WG</h1><h2>18 Nov 2008</h2><p><a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0080.html">
Agenda</a></p><p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-irc">IRC
log</a></p><h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2><div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>ruben, tobias, Marc_Schroeder, Felix, wonsuk, werner, Veronique, jean-pierre, hui,
Pierre-Antoine, daniel</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Raphael, Davy, Frank</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Felix</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>VeroniqueM</dd>
</dl>
</div><h2>Contents</h2><ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Agenda review / approval of previous minutes</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">Selection of scribe for next meeting</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">Action items</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">Upcoming meetings / time schedule</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">XMP review</a></li>
<li><a href="#item06">Draft for Use cases and requirements document</a></li>
<li><a href="#item07">Multilevel description review</a></li>
<li><a href="#item08">Proposal for ontology and api structure</a></li>
<li><a href="#item09">transmission.cc</a></li>
</ol></li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul><hr/><div class="meeting"><p class="irc"><<cite>Daniel</cite>> I just participate in
IRC due to call trouble in minneapolis. sorry</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
scribe: VeroniqueM</p><h3 id="item01">Agenda review / approval of previous minutes</h3><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0080.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0080.html</a></p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/11-mediaann-minutes.html</a></p><p class="phone">previous
minutes are approved</p><h3 id="item02">Selection of scribe for next meeting</h3><p
class="phone">next scribe: Joakim</p><h3 id="item03">Action items</h3><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/open</a></p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> ACTION-22 - pending, waiting for feedback</p><p
class="phone"><a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/22"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/track/actions/22</a></p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-32</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-32 Make a liaison with MPEG using information from the
XP homepage closed</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> ACTION-33 - pending,
waiting for feedback</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-34</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-34 Contact Open IPTV forum closed</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>Daniel</cite>> who's responsible for ACTION-32 MPEG liaison ?</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> close ACTION-36</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-36 Make a liaison with OMA closed</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> Daniel, that was you, no?</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>Daniel</cite>> yes, me</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> ok.
Should we keep the action item open?</p><p class="irc"><<cite>Daniel</cite>> I am in
Minneapolis and at room, but internet line is not good for making a call</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> ok. I will keep ACTION-32 open for now.</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>vrodrgue</cite>> Ruben and me were causing noise because of acoustic
coupling. We will share microphone and bother no more)</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>Daniel</cite>> No, who should work for ACTION32 ?</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> Daniel, maybe we can discuss this then you are back on the
phone, and keep the action-32 just open for now. OK?</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>Daniel</cite>> no problem</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
ACTION-37 - Write a mail about the general structure of the use cases / req document -
pending</p><h3 id="item04">Upcoming meetings / time schedule</h3><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> two more meetings before f2f. Goal before f2f:</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> - finish XMP review, please look into <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP</a></p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> - make progress with use case / requirements document</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> - have a list of core questions about our scope,
see "URI as value" and "proposal for ontology and API" thread</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> Goals at f2f:</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
a) 1 day for use case / requirements document</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
b) 1/2 day for finding answers to the "scope" related questions</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> c) 1/2 day to distribute and start work: people looking into
mapping specific, existing formats to XMP, plus other work items related to b)</p><p
class="phone">there are several questions to be answered before we can move on: what level
of abstraction do we want, structured model or flat one, uri question etc.</p><p
class="phone">at the f2f we could try to define the scope of the ontology</p><p
class="phone">at the f2f we could try to define the scope of the ontologyand define
properties to map</p><p class="phone">topics to be moved forward in the next calls and f2f
meeting</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> veronique: for the use case / req
document we need input from the people who contributed</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> .. bilateral discussions with the editors could be
useful</p><p class="phone"><cite>Werner:</cite> we need a better dfinition of what is
expected from the use cases in terms of requirements</p><p class="phone"><cite>Felix:</cite>
two approaches are possible.. define use cases very clearly.. and define requirements and
level of complexity.. other choice is starting from existing ontologies.. and define what
complexity is needed in them<br/> ... we need to decide if we want the sequential approach:
use case -> requirements -> api<br/> ... or work in parallel</p><p class="phone"
><cite>Werner:</cite> the idea is not to create the ontology to cover all the needs from
the use cases<br/> ... but check out the requirements and models that are relevant for
more<br/> ... these will have more impact</p><p class="phone"><cite>Felix:</cite> f2f we
can discuss the two drafts: api and requirement document</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> veronique: idea to send use case on the list and the
contributor could say "this was the intended meaning"</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> veronquie: video use case is very vague</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/VideoUC"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/VideoUC</a></p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> veronique: all use cases have some sentences which are
unclear</p><p class="phone"><cite>Felix:</cite> maybe an idea could be for the contributors
of each use case to clarify them, or another possibility could be to simplify these
descriptions</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> veronique: having a template
might help</p><a name="action01" id="action01"/>
<p class="irc"><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> 37 to Felix to make a proposal for a template to describe the use
cases [recorded in <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html#action01"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't find user - 37</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>Daniel</cite>> good idea for having a template for the use cases</p><p
class="phone">ACTION 37 Felix to make a proposal for a template to describe the use
cases</p><p class="irc"><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't find user - 37</p><h3
id="item05">XMP review</h3><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/XMP</a></p><p class="phone">Thierry
contributed to the Dublin Core section</p><p class="phone">do people have specific ideas
about a simple representation vs multilayer, or should this topic be discussed later,
rather?</p><h3 id="item06">Draft for Use cases and requirements document</h3><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> veronique: I am rewriting the introduction, merging it with
different views</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> .. use cases related to
media, context etc.</p><p class="irc"><<cite>VictorR</cite>> it is fine</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>wbailer</cite>> +1</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
.. cultural heritage is another one</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> +1</p><h3
id="item07">Multilevel description review</h3><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/MultilevelDescriptionReview">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Annotations/wiki/MultilevelDescriptionReview</a></p><p
class="phone"><cite>Felix:</cite> could Ruben make a short introduction of his
document/</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> I've a problem with the micro</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> np, waiting</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>rtous</cite>> I can do it by IRC</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> yes, go ahead</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> We
have identified several aspects related to multi-level description</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>rtous</cite>> I've added a table to the end of the page</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>rtous</cite>> 1) different abstractions
(work-manifestation-instance-item)</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> 2)
intellectual property aspects (MVCO)</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> 3)
collections</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> 4) whole/part</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>rtous</cite>> 5) creation workflow (derived from)</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>rtous</cite>> My conclusion:</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>>
Resources are related, we should at least keep some links between them</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>rtous</cite>> Like "dc:source" "dc:relation", etc</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>tobiasb</cite>> I also would suggest to have a look at the FRBR
relations</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> however the possibility of a more
complex structure should be considered</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> this is
all</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> thanks</p><p class="phone">Slivia: maybe as
was suggested by Silvia on the mailing list, these relations (FRBR) are related to
collection management</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0076.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0076.html</a></p><p
class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> (mail from Silvia)</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>VictorR</cite>> they are not necessarility to collection management</p><p
class="phone">Veronique: and we should not include a complex model in our ontology, but be
able to "plug into" complex models</p><p class="phone">Veronique: no, agreed, but they are
very "context dependent", somehow</p><p class="irc"><<cite>VictorR</cite>> This idea
of plugging more complex models sounds reasonable</p><p class="phone">Veronique: that could
be part of the requirements for tasks-related use cases</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>wbailer</cite>> the plug-in could define specialisations of concepts in the
core model, eg a more specific type of relation between resources</p><a name="action02"
id="action02"/>
<p class="irc"><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> VeroniqueM to send around an exemple of what she means with
"plugging into complex model" [recorded in <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html#action02"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't find user - VeroniqueM</p><p class="phone"
><cite>Felix:</cite> are there other thoughts on Ruben's document?</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>VictorR</cite>> I do naturally agree with Ruben´s document.</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>wbailer</cite>> it provides a very good overview</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>tobiasb</cite>> +1</p><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>> +1</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>Daniel</cite>> +1</p><h3 id="item08">Proposal for ontology and api
structure</h3><p class="irc"><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html">
http://dev.w3.org/2008/video/mediaann/mediaont-api-1.0/mediaont-api-1.0.html</a></p><p
class="phone"><cite>Felix:</cite> we had some discussions on the mailing list<br/> ...
related to a proposal from MPEG<br/> ... also working on an API<br/> ... discussion about
standalone format/not<br/> ... we can discuss this here too: what do people think?</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>VictorR</cite>> MPEG´s API (called MXM) is still in an early stage
but has interesting points to look at</p><p class="irc"><<cite>VictorR</cite>> [I
participate also in its writting]</p><p class="irc"><<cite>VictorR</cite>> Yes, it is
OK, together with Christian Timmerer</p><p class="phone">ACTION to VictoR to look into the
MPEG API</p><p class="irc"><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't find user -
to</p><p class="phone">ACTION VictoR to look into the MPEG API</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't find user - VictoR</p><p class="phone"
>ACTION VictorR to look into the MPEG API</p><p class="irc"><<cite>trackbot</cite>>
Sorry, couldn't find user - VictorR</p><p class="phone"><cite>Felix:</cite> we could discuss
the structure of the ontology</p><p class="phone"><cite>Tobias:</cite> depends on the use
cases and requirements, what type of structure we want<br/> ... list is ok if the use cases
can be fulfilled with that<br/> ... otherwise need of a more complex structure</p><p
class="phone">ACTION Felix to draft a first agenda for the f2f meeting</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-38 - Draft a first agenda for the f2f
meeting [on Felix Sasaki - due 2008-11-25].</p><p class="phone"><cite>Felix:</cite> we
should include a slot for this topic</p><h3 id="item09">transmission.cc</h3><p class="irc"
><<cite>fsasaki</cite>>
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0030.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0030.html</a></p><p
class="phone"><cite>Felix:</cite> we had feedback about this from a person from Yahoo!<br/>
... but did not get his info yet<br/> ... does anyone has opinions about this format?<br/>
... format is transmission cc</p><p class="phone"><cite>Tobias:</cite> format supposed to be
simpler than media rss<br/> ... but can't really see the difference</p><p class="phone"
><cite>Felix:</cite> google youtube API also uses mediaRSS, not sure if the use
transmission.cc</p><p class="irc"><<cite>tobiasb</cite>> One difference is that TXFeed
explicitely allows to reference external databases for metadata, videos and subtitle
databases.</p><p class="phone">ACTION Tobias to put description about transmission cc in
Wiki</p><p class="irc"><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-39 - Put description
about transmission cc in Wiki [on Tobias Bürger - due 2008-11-25].</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>js</cite>> Hi, Sorry for checking inlate I misstken the time</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>vrodrgue</cite>> Thanks you, all</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>tobiasb</cite>> bye!</p><p class="irc"><<cite>rtous</cite>> bye</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>wonsuk</cite>> bye</p><p class="irc"><<cite>js</cite>>
logout</p><p class="irc"><<cite>hui</cite>> bye</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>erik</cite>> Felix ... For the 2nd F2F @ Ghent, Media Annotations has 9 (live)
participants so far (Daniel, Tobias, Jean-Pierre, WonSuk, Joakim, Frank, Felix, Victor,
Werner)</p><p class="irc"><<cite>erik</cite>> ... but only three have already booked
their hotel (Daniel, Felix, Joakim) ... I just hope the other ones have booked elsewhere, or
will book soon ... just letting you all know</p><p class="irc"><<cite>tobiasb</cite>>
I also booked a hotel already...</p><p class="irc"><<cite>Daniel</cite>> thanks Erik
for your info.</p><p class="irc"><<cite>erik</cite>> Hope to be able to call in next
time and give some more info</p><p class="irc"><<cite>erik</cite>> bye</p><p
class="irc"><<cite>Daniel</cite>> thanks Felix</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>VictorR2</cite>> Hello,</p><p class="irc"><<cite>VictorR2</cite>> I have
booked the hotel, too.</p><p class="irc"><<cite>VictorR2</cite>> Veronique, What about
the Action you wanted to create and you failed to?</p><p class="irc"
><<cite>VictorR2</cite>> was it anything about my User name?</p><p class="phone"
>logout</p></div><h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> 37 to Felix to make a proposal for a template to describe the use cases
[recorded in <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html#action01"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br/>
<strong>[NEW]</strong>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> VeroniqueM to send around an exemple of what she means with "plugging
into complex model" [recorded in <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html#action02"
>http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br/> <br/> [End of
minutes]<br/><hr/><address> Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a
href="http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm"> scribe.perl</a>
version 1.133 (<a href="http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br/> $Date:
2008/11/18 14:09:51 $ </address><div class="diagnostics"><hr/><h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic
output</h2>[Delete this section before finalizing the minutes.]<br/>
<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.133 of Date: 2008/01/18 18:48:51
Check for newer version at <a href="http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/Joachim/Joakim/
Succeeded: s/Minneapoils/Minneapolis/
Succeeded: s/vaque/vague/
Succeeded: s/??/Thierry/
Succeeded: s/contributes/contributed/
Succeeded: s/is an input for (their?) API/also uses mediaRSS, not sure if the use transmission.cc/
Found Scribe: joakim
Found Scribe: VeroniqueM
Inferring ScribeNick: VeroniqueM
Scribes: joakim, VeroniqueM
Default Present: +41.22.717.aaaa, Marc_Schroeder, Felix, tobiasb, wonsuk, ruben, jean-pierre, wbailer, VeroniqueM, +95177aabb, pchampin, +46.8.75.7.aacc
Present: ruben tobiasb Marc_Schroeder.a Felix wonsuk wbailer VeroniqueM jean-pierre hui pchampin daniel
Regrets: Raphael Davy Frank
Agenda: <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0080.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-annotation/2008Nov/0080.html</a>
Got date from IRC log name: 18 Nov 2008
Guessing minutes URL: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2008/11/18-mediaann-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: 37 veroniquem
</pre>[End
of <a href="http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm"> scribe.perl</a>
diagnostic output] </div></body>
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