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  <title>Social Web XG Meeting -- 24 Jun 2009</title>
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  <h1>Social Web XG Meeting</h1>

  <h2>24 Jun 2009</h2>

  <p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-irc">IRC
  log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>Lots of people, but Zakim somehow didn't pick them up!</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>peterf, cperey, tp</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>hhalpin</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>Cloud</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li><a href="#agenda">Topics</a></li>


  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>

        <li><a href="#item01">General Organization and Task
        Forces</a></li>

      <li><a href="#item02">Creating User Stories on the
        Wiki</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">Invited Guests</a></li>


        <li><a href="#item04">Social Network Matrix</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item05">Invited Speaker: Kaliya Hamlin</a></li>

      </ol>
    </li>


    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Convene SWXG WG
    meeting of 2009-06-24T13:00-15:00Z</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Who volunteered for
    scribing?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Scribe: Cloud</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to
    approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 17 June 2009 as a true record</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; scribenick
    cloud</p>

    <p class='phone'>Minutes from the last meeting, chair asks if
    everyone happy</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AndreaP</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1 to PhilA's
    scribing.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ACCEPTED approve
    SWXG WG Weekly -- 17 June 2009 as a true record</p>


    <h3 id="item01"> General Organization and Task Forces</h3>


    <p class='phone'>Invited speaker will join fairly shortly, go
    through some actions in the meantime</p>

    <p class='phone'>There was a discussion about context, and also
    about the portability task</p>

    <p class='phone'>Joe Queen wrote a very nice scoping
    statement</p>

    <p class='phone'>Have first portability task meeting after our
    July 1st meeting next week</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; No comments on
    portability?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Any comments from anyone
    on that?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; hope to have
    comments on the mail</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Joe, are you happy to
    have that task force meeting after next week's one?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Joe:</cite> Yes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; RESOLVED: Task
    force meeting next week after the regular telecon</p>

    <h3 id="item02"> User Stories</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> User stories; Tim can't
    make it; Harry asks if anyone would like to help Tim to turn
    the user stories into a more coherent document</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; I helped out, and
    am interested</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> This tasks involves
    editing the W3C doc, going through stories on the wiki, seeing
    what overlaps, abstract functionality - need volunteers to help
    out - think on this please<br />
    ... Deadline is end of the year</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; I can work on it
    during summer.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Fabien?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Good to have one person
    who did it before and one new person</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>FabGandon:</cite> Can work on it during
    July</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to create draft use-case
    document in W3C CVS [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-44
    - Create draft use-case document in W3C CVS [on Harry Halpin -
    due 2009-07-01].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 4. Context</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Moving on to context,
    big discussion that Harry missed due to timing errors - looking
    for summar</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA2</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Jun/0121.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Jun/0121.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>PhilA? Took a look at discussion that took
    place, and wrote an e-mail yesterday about it. Integrated
    comments that came back.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> suggesting a charter for
    the task force<br />
    ... aims to create a vocabulary, looking at existing ones for
    the ubiquitous web</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i agree look for
    existing vocabularies</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> very close link between
    context and privacy<br />
    ... should be link between task forces that look at privacy
    where privacy issues are due to when context is the cause</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; sounds good.
    Starting with a vocab, would help find out what the whole thing
    covers</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> DKA, you were talking
    about a geolocation API too, so may be related</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Ask Lars or Eric or some
    other chair to come and discuss issues with privacy in the
    Geolocation WG</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to invite Dan to W3C Social Web XG
    for context comm call [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-45
    - Invite Dan to W3C Social Web XG for context comm call [on
    Daniel Appelquist - due 2009-07-01].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>PhilA:</cite> Will this be part of the
    task force or the main concall?<br />
    ... want to have this discussion before August 7th</p>


<h3 id="item03"> Guest Invitations</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; August 7th - Nathan
    Eagle.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA2</cite>&gt; :-)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Skip everything else and
    go to invited speaker</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> danbri to
    find someone from Opera to talk Widgets [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p><a name="action04"
    id="action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> danbri
    and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging
    and W3C. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Invited speaker is
    Kaliya Hamlin<br />
    ... aka IdentityWoman<br />
    ... <a href=
    "http://www.identitywoman.net/">http://www.identitywoman.net/</a></p><a name="action05"
    id="action05"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Renato
    and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2001/01/cgi-irc">http://www.w3.org/2001/01/cgi-irc</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>caribou</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2001/01/cgi-irc">http://www.w3.org/2001/01/cgi-irc</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 6. Creating User
    Stories on the Wiki</p><a name="action06" id="action06"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> tpa to
    W3C-style "edit" user stories [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p><a name="action07"
    id="action07"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> tinkster
    to document danbri's microblogging provenance question as a
    user story. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p><a name="action08"
    id="action08"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> danbri
    write up orkut/i18n/"looking for" issue. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p><a name="action09"
    id="action09"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> tinkster
    to document developer stories on wiki. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]</p>

<h3 id="item04">Social Network Matrix</h3>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> hhalpin
    to retrieve top X social networking sites from the top 500
    sites of Alexa [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]</p><a name="action11"
    id="action11"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> cperey to
    make list of top 30 to do profiles on, to merge with hhalpin's
    list on alexa [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action11">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action11</a>]</p><a name="action12"
    id="action12"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> karl to
    create the matrix to be filled [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action12">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]</p>


    <h3 id="item05">Invited Speaker: Kaliya Hamlin</h3>


    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Hi everybody! Asks how
    many people here</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> About 20 people</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; there are 22 people
    on irc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Kaliya is from
    Internet Identity Workshop</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> I sent you a lot of
    links, hope you read them, didn't send additional ones with
    history and context of the community</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Which has been a
    quite important community and event in creating notions of
    digital identity, openID.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> history is that Identity
    Commons came together to see how individuals could manage and
    control their own identities<br />
    ... so that they could own this layer of the web<br />
    ... Community formed in 2004/2005 was really focussed on
    user-centric identity<br />
    ... Harry asked me to talk about high level strategies, key
    terms are in the community lexicon which defines shared
    language (e.g. the word identity)<br />
    ... community stopped arguing about what identity meant, and
    focussed more on identifiers<br />
    ... and came to definitions of what claims where, in that they
    are really just attributes<br />
    ... claims can be made by yourself for yourself or by other
    entities (e.g. companies, non-profits) for other people</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; seems the important
    concepts so far: identifier and entity
    (anything that can make a statement about an identifier)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> separation between
    authentication and authorisation, and enrolment</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; entity ~
    foaf:Agent? (just trying to align my own vocabulary...)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; I added the Social
    Web XG to <a href=
    "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_web">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_web</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> In the same article about
    community, user-centric, company-centric and card?-centric</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; also added foaf+ssl
    to <a href=
    "http://wiki.idcommons.net/Identity_Landscape">http://wiki.idcommons.net/Identity_Landscape</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    user-centric/card-centric/organization-centric</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Infocard</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> references
    informationcards.net</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mattroweshow</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://informationcard.net/">http://informationcard.net/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Misunderstanding that the
    only org involved is Microsoft, but the open source grassroots
    community has embraced and extended it even further<br />
    ... That project is called the "Hidden Project"? Available on
    Adobe Air<br />
    ... Interesting journey to get to where we are today</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Venn diagram:
    <a href=
    "http://www.xmlgrrl.com/publications/IEEESecPriv-MarApr2008-MalerReed-Venn.pd">
    http://www.xmlgrrl.com/publications/IEEESecPriv-MarApr2008-MalerReed-Venn.pd</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.xmlgrrl.com/publications/IEEESecPriv-MarApr2008-MalerReed-Venn.pdf">
    http://www.xmlgrrl.com/publications/IEEESecPriv-MarApr2008-MalerReed-Venn.pdf</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> All social networking
    platforms show up at their events; very market driven; "what
    are users tell us are what we will do"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Higgins Project</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> They are working really
    well together to support portability and open
    authentication</p>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.eclipse.org/higgins/">http://www.eclipse.org/higgins/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> PortableContacts for
    standardising the info people have in their networks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>caribou</cite>&gt; contacts or
    context?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Ready to answer questions
    on what they've read and what they want to know about the
    community</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> We haven't thought about
    the notion of identity so far<br />
    ... Haven't talked about Information Cards<br />
    ... Will be more asking for guidance about the identity
    landscape<br />
    ... User versus card versus organisation</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> that is an old model, but
    now we have gotten to the Venn of identity<br />
    ... evolution of our thinking is to help SWXG get to where they
    have gotten to, or at least to see how to get there</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Through the link out on
    IRC to the paper Harry has read and suggests other in SWXG do
    too<br />
    ... A lot of backgrounds in this group are from portability
    from Semantic Web and also mobile phones + social
    networking</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> Henry in a cafe<br />
    ... added to the identity landscape wiki about foaf+ssl
    work<br />
    ... using URIs for identity<br />
    ... interesting to hear how that work can integrate more into
    the identity commons</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> has heard about foaf -
    wants to bring more info about it to the Identity Commons
    community</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> Is it enough to add to
    the wiki?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Join the community list,
    500-600 people, was the mailing list that got the community
    started</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Do we have anyone
    on that identity commons mailing-list?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Say hey do you know about
    this, we're working on it, and get people to interact with
    you</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> Will try that</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Perhaps we should
    get a liason?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> More formal process</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Asks what this process
    is</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Unique organisation as
    described in charter (non-proscriptive), have a monthly
    call</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Might discuss if we
    should have someone join from SWXG</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>caribou:</cite> Do you have links to the
    ISO work on identity management</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Haven't to her
    knowledge</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Any more questions?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>caribou</cite>&gt; ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 27
    WG5 working on an Identity Management framework</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; caribou - should we
    ask ISO to present on what they are up to?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hajons:</cite> In telecommunications,
    have IMF - identity management - connect telecommunications
    network through the internet - has there been participation
    from IMS vendors etc.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Has been participation
    from European telecommunications vendors<br />
    ... Our community is mainly made up of web portal folks and
    large enterprises<br />
    ... Y!, Google, MySpace, Facebook, Plaxo, etc.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>renato</cite>&gt; notes that W3C PLING
    has a liaison under way with ISO/IEC JTC 1/SC 27 WG5</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> One thing we're trying
    to do is something similar to IC - you pointed out abstract
    functionality, separations that came out of IC -
    authentication, authorisation, validation - where is this
    written up?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Article about cultivating
    community and shared language links to the lexicon; one of the
    first things they did</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Seems that what has
    happened in Internet Identity workshops is that you have
    technology that is filling these functionalities; in W3C
    groups, we are not sure how they all fit together<br />
    ... need details of how technology X with functionality Y and
    are thinking of a matrix that could be used in our final report
    to W3C</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; identifier: OpenID
    - an anchor</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> What are we managing?
    Step back and ask why are we managing for people. e.g.
    identifiers, openid gives people an anchor on the web</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; via their own
    domain name or an identity provider</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> either as their own
    domain name or a facebook url<br />
    ... another key thing that came out of the community was
    discovery<br />
    ... how do you find out what came out of the endpoint?<br />
    ... Does it point to where my photos, IMs, etc. are?<br />
    ... Kind of spun out into it's own spec and part of XRI tech
    committee at OASIS<br />
    ... How can people link their different accounts together
    without giving away their passwords</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; kaliya: XRD =
    discovery, what does an endpoint do, take a phone call,
    etc.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Data portability / user
    control ideas<br />
    ... Hand me a card that allows some claims to be made<br />
    ... Different from the physical version<br />
    ... In real world, they don't take a photocopy of your driver's
    license<br />
    ... In digital world, just want to share some info<br />
    ... It's enough to know age, not eye colour - selective
    disclosure<br />
    ... MS bough Qidentica who does this selective disclosure<br />
    ... Another wing of community is focussed on how individuals
    could have tools that help them manage relationships with
    companies they do business with (productCRM)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mattroweshow</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://projectvrm.net/">http://projectvrm.net/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Midack? in the UK and
    lots of activity in London around VRM hub<br />
    ... Identities never happen in isolation - in context of a
    group or entity or other individuals</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; blackley
    relationship paper</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Great paper by Bob
    Blakley<br />
    ... relationship paper</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://identityblog.burtongroup.com/bgidps/2009/02/relationship-paper-now-freely-available.html">
    http://identityblog.burtongroup.com/bgidps/2009/02/relationship-paper-now-freely-available.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Great pointers and
    info<br />
    ... after telecon we will go through these notes and try to
    extract general points<br />
    ... Idea of invited speakers makes more and more
    cross-community conversations<br />
    ... Internet Identity Workshop is happening in November in
    California at around the same time as the W3C meeting<br />
    ... Asks Kaliya for format of the IIW</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; +1 IIW</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; sounds good.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> and asks if anyone is
    planning to go</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +0.5</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/">http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Twice a year<br />
    ... Same place<br />
    ... Where all the big Social Web companies are<br />
    ... in Silicon valley<br />
    ... Don't have an agenda ahead of time, bring communities
    together<br />
    ... In the morning after an intro section, community makes the
    agenda</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; I think I went
    there a year ago</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Different technical
    activities are happening and they want to cover it F2F during
    the meeting<br />
    ... So unlike conferences where real work happens in the
    hallways<br />
    ... Super productive!<br />
    ... Also reduces a lot of the politics, no committee deciding
    who gets to speak<br />
    ... November 3-5 <a href=
    "http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/">http://www.internetidentityworkshop.com/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Nov 3-5th.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> have discussed having it
    all week with different industry areas - not fully decided</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; Oh yes, I did go
    there last year <a href=
    "http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/3_weeks_of_conferences_and">
    http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/3_weeks_of_conferences_and</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>TPAC = <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/Overview.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/Overview.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Asks it it's okay to
    come for 1-2 days</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Yes</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Will have a few people
    there financial cuts permitting<br />
    ... What would you see is the best way for us to continue
    future interactions apart from joining mailing list<br />
    ... Who would Kaliya suggest we talk to next - e.g. Higgins
    project<br />
    ... What could W3C do? Report about Social Web in general, but
    a lot of work is happening not with W3C partially because of
    structural issues with W3C - IRC is viewed as a pain,
    membership fees are really high</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Sense in Silicon valley
    that market adoption is what a standard is, so don't care as
    much about standards organisations<br />
    ... Community around Open Web Foundation interesting (Messina,
    Smarr); community around OpenSocial is interesting (KevinMarks
    et al.)<br />
    ... Chris Messina is working on distributed social networking
    (DiSo)<br />
    ... Mentions some names from Higgins Project, missed who as
    audio not great</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> As an XG, main task is
    to write a report. One year to do so (or 3/4 at this point). To
    bootstrap, when we have invited speakers, someone will clean up
    the minutes to summarise it for the report<br />
    ... Just so we don't lose track of everything that's
    happened<br />
    ... Throw minutes by kaliya for review</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> Is on list</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Asks for volunteers to
    edit minutes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; mhh</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; we could do it</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; one definition of
    identity was mentioned as being particularly good, but I
    couldn't quite hear what it was called (venner??), and didn't
    see it in the script either. What was it?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> one of the challenges is
    that there is so much stuff happening in community and quite
    broad so hard to summarise it</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; yes.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Henry to do first draft,
    Harry to go over it, and then send to Kaliya</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; have to go
    sorry, a lot of information to digest :) thanks.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; Good reading</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> Was at IIW a year ago,
    gave a talk about FOAF+SSL at Mountain View</p><a name=
    "action13" id="action13"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> bblfish and hhalpin to write up
    kaliya's talk for future report [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action13">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action13</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-46
    - And hhalpin to write up kaliya's talk for future report [on
    Henry Story - due 2009-07-01].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite>
    community@lists.idcommons.net</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; lots of activity on
    OASIS and concordia lists</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>kaliya:</cite> there is also an interop
    list</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Kaliya to send links to
    listserv, at next meeting can go over the principles</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; I must leave the call
    -- thanks very much to our guest speaker for great info though!
    (And thanks for waking up so early!)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> any final questions, now
    over 1 hour<br />
    ... Thanks the invited speaker</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; thanks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; thanks!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; thanks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; thanks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; thanks :-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Meeting
    Adjourned</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; very informative
    kaliya</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> bblfish and
  hhalpin to write up kaliya's talk for future report [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action13">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action13</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to invite Dan
  to W3C Social Web XG for context comm call [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to create
  draft use-case document in W3C CVS [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> cperey to
  make list of top 30 to do profiles on, to merge with hhalpin's
  list on alexa [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action11">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action11</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri and
  karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging and W3C.
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to
  find someone from Opera to talk Widgets [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri write
  up orkut/i18n/"looking for" issue. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to
  retrieve top X social networking sites from the top 500 sites of
  Alexa [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> karl to
  create the matrix to be filled [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action12">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Renato and
  DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP [recorded
  in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to
  document danbri's microblogging provenance question as a user
  story. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to
  document developer stories on wiki. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tpa to
  W3C-style "edit" user stories [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/06/24-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2009/06/24 15:09:28 $
  </address>


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