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  <h1>Social Web Incubator Group</h1>

  <h2>13 May 2009</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://www.w3.org/mid/b3be92a00905121430x5f524560rfaa58328694779d3@mail.gmail.com'>
  Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-irc">IRC
  log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>AdamB, tinkster, AlexPassant, FabGandon, wonsuk, karl,
      dom, oshani, jsalvachua, cperey, +0797094aaaa, petef,
      +03539149aabb, mischat, +39.011.228.aacc, pchampin, uldis,
      +49.899.5.aaee, raphael, Julian, +39.011.228.aaff, danbri,
      hhalpin, MacTed, +1.510.931.aagg, Hakan, yuk</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Ronald, BenG, JeffS, PhilA, AlexKorth</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>DKA</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>Toby</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li><a href="#agenda">Topics</a></li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>7994</p>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; Hello, to
    all</p>
    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://w3csocialweb.tumblr.com/">Last Week in Social Web
    Incubator Group</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Does it just involve typing what's spoken to
    IRC?</p>

    <p class='phone'>If so, I can do that - I can type pretty
    quickly.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; ScribeNick:
    tinkster</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; Scribe: Toby</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; cheers for
    tinkster</p>

    <p class='phone'>danbri and hhalpin details, so I'm
    scribing.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Harry's agenda had a typo for IRC channel.
    This is the correct one.</p>

    <p class='phone'>No roll call. Anyone new?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; I was there
    only on IRC last week</p>

    <p class='phone'>Alex Passant - <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0020.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0020.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>DERI Galway.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Interested in social/semantic stuff.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Do we approve minutes from last meeting?</p>

    <p class='phone'>Any objections?</p>

    <p class='phone'>We'll generally assume minutes approved unless
    we hear otherwise.</p>

    <p class='phone'>First, we'll hear about Christine's taskforce
    proposal.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0051.html">
    Christine's TF proposal</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html">Last week
    meeting minutes</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> task forces concept
    not just my idea. Helped to write it and adopted formula from
    workshops.</p>

    <p class='phone'>People at workshops and after expressed
    interest in specific topics.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Task forces illustrate depth and bredth of
    topics.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Christine doesn't percieve "mobile" as
    separate topic. Is relevant to all task forces.</p>

    <p class='phone'>This is why she doesn't propose such a task
    force.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1 to not splitting
    mobile off.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Christine's task force proposal is not the
    only way this could be split up.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Distributed and privacy/trust seem to have a
    lot of people interested.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1 not splitting
    mobile</p>

    <p class='phone'>Julian from Vodaphone has joined us and will
    be introducing himself.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Vodaphone R&amp;D, research initiatives
    group.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Interested in context and standardising that
    here.</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA notes task forces have been successful in
    Mobile Web Best Practices.</p>

    <p class='phone'>MWBP task forces have sometimes had own calls,
    own face to faces.</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA speaks about definition of task
    forces.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Key feature is that they have a lead.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; task force has
    leader and people/participants!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; +1 to not split
    mobile too</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; we need to have a
    critical number of experts</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Dom:</cite> leader + charter. People can
    decide whether to join.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; make sure task force
    scope is well defined</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; hi</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; sorry late, trying
    join</p>

    <p class='phone'>Needs more than 1 participant.</p>

    <p class='phone'>For every task force we want to launch, there
    is an overhead - identify leader, etc.</p>

    <p class='phone'>e.g. a mobile web task force was set up for an
    open source implementation. Made sense to split it off, have
    own calls, have face to faces to work on code.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Different deliverables from main working
    group.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Any software development would certainly make
    sense as a task force.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Let's identify one or two task forces to split
    off and then phase in others if/when needed.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; ..ooOO( 7 task
    forces, vs 7 email threads...? )</p>

    <p class='phone'>What are people's priorities for task
    forces?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; It is not required
    that all task forces begin at the start of the incubator's
    activity. There may be delays either due to lack of appropriate
    leader or contributors, dependencies or lack of time on behalf
    of the incubator group's members.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AdamB</cite>&gt; how should the task
    forces map back to the XG charter?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> sorry for echo on
    line. Agrees that some can be spun off later - sometimes
    deirable when there are dependencies.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AdamB</cite>&gt; or should i ask, do
    they need to?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> important to have a
    higher level "Landscape" task force. How does everything look
    big picture?<br />
    ... I want to be invoolved in that one.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yes, I would like to
    lead that</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> agrees landscape tf makes
    sense.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; looks like he is</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I am online.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; both are on line</p>


    <p class='phone'>Thanks.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; i'm not getting
    audio here</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> agrees on having task
    forces.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; may i make my point
    by irc please?: for now re "task forces", let's start by seeing
    them as email threads ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1 for task
    forces to start and focus the work</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I'd say 2 or 3.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; agree that they need
    to be clarified based on interests</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; if we get &gt; 10
    messages in 1 of these threads, and more than 3 participants in
    that thread, then let's call it a Task Force ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Scoping for task forces need
    more quantification. Don't want to split off 7 immediately. 2
    is a good place to start.<br />
    ... all Christines listed areas are good places, but don't
    necessarily need all of them to spin off separately.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; notes that we also
    had a poll on task for projected participation in past...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; let me find that
    URI</p>

    <p class='phone'>Landscape and Business areas - mergeable?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> there is overlap, but
    Landscape intended to look at technical aspects, and look for
    gaps.<br />
    ... metrics is muddy.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; karl, you wanted to
    ask about Landscape Task force future?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Karl:</cite> Landscape seems to be about
    surveying. Incubator is 1 year (maybe two if we're lucky).</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Maybe one thing we
    can say, if we wanted to start 2 or 3 task forces in order to
    get some work done, which 2 or 3 would be best?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Karl:</cite> Should we have a continuing
    forum for discussing developments after the XG is finished?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> Landscape is a "living
    framework". On a wiki?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://delicious.com/search?p=socialweb">http://delicious.com/search?p=socialweb</a>
    ? does it answer the needs or what is needed?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> capture the state of
    the art and then "colour on top of it to make it more
    rich".</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I guess my question
    with Landscape is that it's more or less what the entire XG is
    supposed to be doing...</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA? agrees with christine about living
    document.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; agreed hhalpin, the
    landscape sounds like what the final report will be</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Adam:</cite> start with charter - this
    might reduce number of task forces.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I think that the
    landscape task force will contribute to the final
    deliverable</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yes, section in the
    XG report</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Landscape/Business/other?
    task forces will probably contribute chapters to end
    deliverables.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; It is central to the
    XG's "view" on the world and its own work</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; Is there a need for a
    task force for Landscape when there are already plenty of sites
    covering social web?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/99999/SocialWebXGCharter/results">
    http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/99999/SocialWebXGCharter/results</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Results of Task
    Force Questionnaire from March.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Karl:</cite> plenty of websites out
    there about the social web. Some business info, some
    development. Do we need yet another website for delivering
    information?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; General results
    from questionnaire had "business" and "landscape" merge, and
    with "Distributed Architecture" and "Interoperability" merging
    as well, with context and user-experience kept separate.</p>

    <p class='phone'>What should be on the wiki? How do we select
    info to include?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; hehe</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Christine:</cite> for people in the
    group to decide what's included. She's not married to any
    particular structure. Should be technical and lead to us
    identifying areas that need more attention.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; On the results of
    questionnaire, we had most popular task forces being 1)
    interoperability/distributed architecture 2) privacy and 3)
    user experience and 4) contextual data</p>

    <p class='phone'>Landscape can help us figure out if new
    technologies are needed, or maybe that no new technologies
    needed.</p>

    <p class='phone'>As most people seem to be interested in
    privacy, interop, etc, then perhaps not enough people
    interested in Landscape to do that work?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION:
    the group will create a task force focusing on "landscape and
    business." Christine Perey to lead task force and edit task
    force report.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Landscape would look at obstacles to growth of
    social web.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; The whole point of
    the XG is future W3C standardization.</p>

    <p class='phone'>What work is already being done which could be
    standardised?</p>

    <p class='phone'>40/50 people telecons are not going to be
    productive, so task forces are almost a requirement.</p>

    <p class='phone'>How should it be dividided is the real
    question?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; 24 ppl on phone?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; the deliverables of
    Task Forces could drive the themes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; oops sorry for
    coming in late</p>

    <p class='phone'>The landscape stuff should be what the
    *entire* XG is looking at. It's other topics that want task
    forces.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; hhalpin speaking
    now</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; task forces
    should/would be focused on topics</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION:
    the group will three task forces: privacy; user experience and
    context.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Privacy seems to be
    very popular</p>

    <p class='phone'>Task forces for privacy, interop, another
    thing (anyone catch it?)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION:
    the group will three task forces: privacy; user experience and
    context. Landscape will be a deliverable of the main working
    group.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Ah, DKA has.</p>

    <p class='phone'>From this structure, the landscape should
    organically emerge.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; distributed
    architecture task force seems important too .</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; what about
    distributed/decentralized architectures?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; DKA&lt; there was a
    fourth too: distributed architectures and data portability</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA has proposed a resolution to task forces.
    He agrees with hhalpin that Landscape is key.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Privacy, User
    Experience, Context, Distributed Architecture.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; That's 4. Perhaps
    too many.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; i think that
    interoperability and distributed may be interesting
    (merged)</p>

    <p class='phone'>Landscape still needs a leader even if it's
    being worked on by whole XG.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; We could do a WBS
    Questionnaire.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; not too many, if
    there are sufficient people</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Landscape leader
    will be editor of final report deliverble.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; no need to delay
    getting a poll now</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; +1 for merging
    distributed architecture and interoperability</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Privacy, User
    Experience, Context, Distributed Architecture.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://delicious.com/search?p=social%20web%20privacy">Social
    Web Privacy on delicious</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Landscape=final
    deliverable?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; CPerey, yes.</p>

    <p class='phone'>I can't scribe and put myself on the
    queue.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Miguel Martin wanted
    to do the distributed architecture</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsa:</cite> distributed architecture</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Distributed
    Architecture + Portability.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; it is of high
    interest</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; That's popular.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; Joaquin
    salvachua :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Joaquin.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; small goals are
    achievable.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>uldis</cite>&gt; if landscape /
    overview is a deliverable of the main group, will there be
    anyone focusing on it? that is, if we don't mention such a
    group (for landscape), who will work on it?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> reintroduces himself.
    Interested in running distrib arch and portability.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Landscape will be
    worked on by the editors.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; I would be interested
    in working on that too, with jsvalchua</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; perfect petef
    :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; no</p>

    <p class='phone'>Privacy, User Exp, Context - leaders?...
    anyone?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; So, in general,
    each of the task force will contribute use-cases and add
    technical details to technical document.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Then towards end of
    XG lifespan, we synthesize this work collectively.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Does is make sense to combine them. Mischa
    says no.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Into landscape.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Which is given by
    the final report.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; hi Claudio!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>claudio:</cite> interested in context,
    but what is the scope?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>claudio:</cite> talking to Philip Oscar
    (?) to understand whether Telecom Italia (?) work might fit in
    here or another group.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; The mission of this
    task force is to document those principles which the task force
    members believe to be the appropriate use &amp; approaches to
    control of abuse of contextual data in social networks. One of
    the deliverables of this task force is a report mapping the
    current uses of context in social networking. A best practices
    guide could also be envisioned,</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; location,
    proximity</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> christine's notes mention
    context = location, proximity, more.</p>

    <p class='phone'>What goes into context information? Mapping
    them to existing standards/vocabs.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; For example of
    context, look at this:</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/dcontology/">http://www.w3.org/TR/dcontology/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Wide scope of context - abuse of context info
    - is this better handled by privacy task force?</p>

    <p class='phone'>claudio is mostly interested in context as in
    device capabilities.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; maybe think
    geolocation API, how does that work with an API like OpenSocial
    or Social Data?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> people can hear him.</p>

    <p class='phone'>He's from Garlik.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Looked into life logging and working out
    autobiographies from web activity.</p>

    <p class='phone'>AlexPassant, I knew it was some kind of silly
    spelling.</p>

    <p class='phone'>;-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>Interesting = Analysis of photographs to
    figure out what people were doing at the time.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Misha refers to
    work from Mor Naarman, <a href=
    "http://infolab.stanford.edu/~mor/">http://infolab.stanford.edu/~mor/</a>
    previously at Yahoo Berkeley now in New York</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; The real key is
    that likely all task-forces work will have to merge.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; The entire point of
    the task forces is to get small enough groups to allow
    productive telecons to produce text.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; for the
    deliverables and to have detailed technical conversations as
    well.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Can mischa lead a task force or edit a
    document about this? No, he's still working on PhD and that
    takes much of his time. But he'll add his thoughts about
    context to the wiki.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; ...but context also
    includes more</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION:
    the group will four task forces: privacy; user experience;
    distributed architecture and context. Landscape will be a
    deliverable of the main working group.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>claudio:</cite> Still thinks this is a
    little too general. Probably not interested in leading context
    task force. Context might have to be something which is
    launched further along, not initially. Wait until needs are
    clarified?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; context related
    project in EU : <a href=
    "http://livingknowledge-project.eu/">http://livingknowledge-project.eu/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; We can always
    launch a contextual task force later as needed, or do it in
    larger group telecons.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; ACTION mischat to write
    some thoughts into the wiki on context, channeling Mor
    Naaman.</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> mischat to write some thoughts into
    the wiki on context, channeling Mor Naaman [recorded in
    <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action01">
    http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION:
    the group will four task forces: privacy; user experience;
    distributed architecture. Landscape and context documents will
    be deliverables of the main working group.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; dom that dom :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; got that dom</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>me:</cite> Could context be an area of
    user experience? Providing different experiences based on
    context?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; i only see 3
    there</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; DKA s/four/three
    ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hakan:</cite> we should have a look at
    what's already been done in presence area. Can we use what's
    already there?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; "the group will
    initiate THREE task forces: privacy; user experience;
    distributed architecture."</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hakan:</cite> will add links and info to
    wiki about this topic.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Let's check to see
    if we have a lead for privacy and user-experience.</p>

    <p class='phone'>How can I add actions?</p><a name="action02"
    id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> hakan to provide some info into the
    wiki on existing work on context. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>me:</cite> am interested in privacy, but
    not enough to lead.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; this (presence work
    in the past) is landscape!! thank you!!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; +1 on 2 or 3 for
    starters being fine</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; It would be good to
    have a precise description of what are the deliverables of each
    task force.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Who wants to lead privacy; and user
    experience?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Volunteers for
    privacy task force?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; I will be looking
    at Access Control</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; Is that
    privacy?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; ach hh</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; precise definitions
    of task forces are for the participants</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; The key is not just
    to list technologies, but to inspect them.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1 to mischa's
    comments</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; To determine what
    are compatible with current user and business practice, both on
    a social level and technical level.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> XRIs - are people
    interested in these? Garlik can provide insight on what sort of
    personal info is out there on the web. But what do people
    want?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; However, note that
    usage of XRIs *may* prove to be sticking point if W3C wanted to
    push standards that use XRIs due to RF issues.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; This task force will
    explore how specific approaches to ensuring user and user data
    privacy and trust can improve the security and reduce risks of
    users. This task force is also responsible for the development
    of best practices recommendations on privacy in social
    networks.</p>

    <p class='phone'>"Best Practices for Privacy in Social
    Networks" could be an outcome. What are people's perceptions of
    privacy?</p>

    <p class='phone'>Can mischat provide information about privacy
    on Wiki?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; yes i can add
    to</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; wiki</p><a name=
    "action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> mischat to provide some data on
    privacy to the wiki. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; 6 min to close of
    meeting</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Do we still not
    have a Privacy Task Force Leader?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Don't we have a privacy
    leader??</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; karl, you wanted to
    tell about privacy scope</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>karl:</cite> would be happy to lead on
    privacy if the scope is very focussed.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Maybe give Karl an
    action to clarify the privacy task force :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>karl:</cite> user stories might be a way
    to focus on what is needed.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; +1 to user
    stories</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; +1 to user
    stories</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; User stories then
    become part of use-case document...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; how is user stories
    = or not to use cases?</p><a name="action04" id="action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Karl to provide some user stories
    regarding privacy. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA supports the idea of user stories as a way
    of exploring these topics - equally works for context.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; same question as
    cperey</p>

    <p class='phone'>Would someone want to provide context user
    stories?</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Julian to provide some user stories
    regarding context. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Cperey, pchampin:
    user stories, once mature, will be part of use-case
    document.</p>

    <p class='phone'>julian could.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; if someone has a
    template, i could probably contrib a tv-related
    story</p><a name="action06" id="action06"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Hakan to provide some user stories
    regarding context. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'>Someone else (who?) could.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; (actions are
    good!)</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA = actions equal progress!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; user stories will help
    to refine task forces I guess</p>

    <p class='phone'>Will Christine edit the landscape document?
    Christine says yes.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I would be happy to
    shape landscape wiki area</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Note that landscape
    wiki = (probably equals) = editor of final report for W3C
    :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Oshani, do you want
    an action on that context + privacy?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>oshani</cite>&gt; sure</p><a name=
    "action07" id="action07"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Oshani to provide use-cases for
    privacy and context on wiki [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'>Editing a document vs contributing to wiki.
    Wiki is good to start with, but we need to ultimately provide
    documents.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Item #3 on agenda.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; danbri: "Can you
    hear me? Is this thing on?"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; no we cant hear
    you</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; pls continue my
    actions</p>

    <p class='phone'>Can't hear danbri.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; we should continue
    this discussion abou how to work onj the next call</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; noting that harry
    made a start, and i tweaked his page ...</p>

    <p class='phone'>About time to finish off...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; re wiki, i am
    thinking something a bit like <a href=
    "http://esw.w3.org/topic/ScheduledTopicChat">http://esw.w3.org/topic/ScheduledTopicChat</a>
    in spirit but less IRC-ish</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Was a slow start because
    of wiki editing issues, but here's a list of people we could
    invite here.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; hhalpin, i edited
    that a bit earlier</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; confirm that wiki
    editing works now :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>me:</cite> I really want to look at OMB
    spec.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; hhalpin, my w3c
    user does not works for the wiki</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; re list of
    people/projects, i'd rather have a list of topics and problems
    ...</p>

    <p class='phone'>Do we have consensus on having invited
    guests?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; +1 for biweekly guest
    telecons</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; ... which is what i
    consider my action to address</p>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I would like to
    suggest that we have the guest telecons to be separately</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; jsalvachua: when
    was the last time you checked</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; 1 hour ago</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; not: "we'd like you
    to come and talk to us. " but "we'd like you to come and talk
    about x"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION: we
    should have guest speaker telecons - guests to be organized by
    chairs.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Guest telecons will be separate from main
    telecon. Will be bi-weekly.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; where my action is
    specifying some Xs and a template for X</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; but a task force
    telecon could happen in the same week as guest speaker
    telecon</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Maybe test for
    consensus or ask questions?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; can we add to list
    of Guest speakers ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; mischat: yes,
    that's why the guest speakers are on the wiki</p>

    <p class='phone'>DKA(?): Main objection was that it might be a
    distraction, and information is already available in other
    ways, but that shouldn't stop us.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I would like there
    to be an effort to bring in Facebook as an invited guest</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; list of speakers
    id add: Kevin Marks (opensocial etc.) , Brad Fitzpatrick
    (Google social graph API)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION: we
    should have optional guest speaker telecons - guests to be
    organized by chairs.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1 to the proposal.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; although there are
    already enough speakers on the wiki to last a year</p>

    <p class='phone'>It's always possible to skip particular guest
    telecons if you're not interested.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; lots of them will be
    too busy, for sure</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I have to sign
    off</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; we don't know who,
    so good to have a nice list</p>

    <p class='phone'>Some people listed on wiki might not be
    available.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; bye</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Any objections?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; if we make it very
    problem-focussed we could get folk who might otherwise be
    unable to justify the time</p>

    <p class='phone'>PROPOSED RESOLUTION: we should have optional
    guest speaker telecons - guests to be organized by chairs.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Danbri: we can
    tweak the kind and type of inviation...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mib_4d0quw9x</cite>&gt; +1 (Hakan)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: we
    should have optional guest speaker telecons - guests to be
    organized by chairs.</strong></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; :)</p><a name=
    "action08" id="action08"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin and danbri to invite guest
    speakers and investigate their schedule [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; i pinged chris saad
    earlier re dataportability too</p>

    <p class='phone'>Evan P of OMB interested in contributing.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; i can bring it up on
    next week's dataportability call too</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; karl: big news
    would definitely be important</p>

    <p class='phone'>Next week: pick up discussion on task
    forces.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Bye everyone!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; karl, looks
    interesting</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; bye all</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; bye everyone, only
    a few minutes over!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; thanks all, bye</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mib_4d0quw9x</cite>&gt; bye</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; cheers, sorry to be
    partially conneted</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; bye</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AdamB</cite>&gt; bye</p>

    <p class='phone'>Is there anything I need to do as scribe to
    finish off?</p>

    <p class='phone'>thanks</p>

    <p class='phone'>no problem.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>yuk</cite>&gt; i don't miss me in the
    attendee</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>yuk</cite>&gt; thank you</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hakan to provide
  some info into the wiki on existing work on context. [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Hakan to provide
  some user stories regarding context. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin and
  danbri to invite guest speakers and investigate their schedule
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Julian to provide
  some user stories regarding context. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Karl to provide
  some user stories regarding privacy. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> mischat to
  provide some data on privacy and context ( channeling Mor Naaman) to the wiki. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Oshani to provide
  use-cases for privacy and context on wiki [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2009/05/13 19:18:20 $
  </address>

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