13-mediafrag-minutes.html
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 13 May
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>13 May 2009</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0022.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Silvia, Michael, Raphael, Gui, Conrad</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Yves, Erik, Davy</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Raphael</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Guillaume</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">ADMIN, next conference</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">UC & Requirements</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">UA Server HTTP Communication</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">UA MF Resolution and
Processing</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">TEST CASES</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 13 May
2009</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Gui</cite>> yes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Scribe:
Guillaume</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Scribenick: yes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Scribenick:
Gui</p>
<h3 id="item01">ADMIN, next conference</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Minutes: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/29-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>Accepting minutes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>Ok, minutes of the 29 April 2009 telecom
accepted</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Summary: unlikely
that Conrad, Silvia and Guillaume can make the Amsterdam
meeting</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ... easier for
Europeans (Michael, Jack, Raphael, what about Yves?)</p>
<h3 id="item02">UC & Requirements</h3>
<p class='phone'>The working draft has been published</p>
<p class='phone'>All actions arel ongoing</p>
<p class='phone'>TOPIC UA Server HTTP Communication</p>
<h3 id="item03">UA Server HTTP Communication</h3>
<p class='phone'>Conrad will discuss this at the next
teleconf</p>
<p class='phone'>We need to start capturing what we recommend
regarding the use of "?" and "#"</p>
<p class='phone'>Silvia is getting inputs from the HTML5
mailing-list, any specific information that's relevant we
should look at? Silvia and Conrad please keep track.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Raphael: in the
next iteration of the document, we should clearly clarify the
role of '#' and '?'</p>
<p class='phone'>Further discussions about the MF syntax giving
absolute times mechanism. It is a big requirement. Silvia to
continue discuss with Thomas.</p>
<h3 id="item04">UA MF Resolution and Processing</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UserAgentMediaFragmentResolution">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UserAgentMediaFragmentResolution</a></p>
<p class='phone'>Michael would like to take us through the
document at some point.</p>
<p class='phone'>In the sequence of things, two things needs to
be explained :</p>
<p class='phone'>the template of HTTP headers</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_RTSP_Communication">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_RTSP_Communication</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2326.txt">http://www.ietf.org/rfc/rfc2326.txt</a>
<- rtsp spec</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Image:Rtsp.jpg">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/Image:Rtsp.jpg</a>
<- synchronise this picture with more details with the one
for http</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> thanks
silvia</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> :)</p>
<h3 id="item05">TEST CASES</h3>
<p class='phone'>Discussing the issues raised on the mailing
list</p>
<p class='phone'>e.g. t=10,</p>
<p class='phone'>Is it good syntax or not?</p>
<p class='phone'>Do we need to specify the media type as well
for each test case?</p>
<p class='phone'>1. the way to express the media type in the
fragment syntax (only the server would need to know)</p>
<p class='phone'>2. Write the media type inside the Test case
results</p>
<p class='phone'>(We need this data to be able to report on the
test cases)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> trackbot,
status</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>ISSUE:</cite> Should we have the media
type inside the Test Cases?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ISSUE-9 -
Should we have the media type inside the Test Cases? ; please
complete additional details at <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9/edit">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9/edit</a>
.</p>
<p class='phone'>Let's go through each test case and spend one
or two minute on each during a teleconf (now?)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> TC0000: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases#TC0000:_empty_MF:">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases#TC0000:_empty_MF:</a>
reviewed and agreed</p>
<p class='phone'>TC empty MF - Is there cases where the MF
conforming UAs would behave differently?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> no</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>TC0001:</cite> undefined time segment -
npt - Would we expect an output?</p>
<p class='phone'>Do we agree that the output should be the
entire resource?</p>
<p class='phone'>it should be unspecified?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I agree - it should
be the entire resource</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> TC0001: +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Scribenick:
mhausenblas</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: TC0001
accepted as proposed</strong></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Gui_</cite>> TC0002: empty time
segment - npt</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> #t=0,0 could be
written as #t=x,x</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribenick: Gui_</p>
<p class='phone'>#t=x,x, where x=x</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> i think that in
barcelona we were talking about a zero-duration media file as
the output of this</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> where x is
integer</p>
<p class='phone'>Can a "zero duration media" be returned?</p>
<p class='phone'>The resource exists, it's just that we return
an empty fragment of it</p>
<p class='phone'>Should we be returning a frame as empty
content?</p>
<p class='phone'>What is the purpose, a blank screen for Video,
what about the case of Audio?</p>
<p class='phone'>Maybe this is useful as "place holders"</p>
<p class='phone'>Either we signal to the client that's it's a
error (it's not allowed to do it) or it should be for some
usage</p>
<p class='phone'>It could be in the content header, Content not
acceptable 406 or 416 the requested range is not
satisfiable</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I think: 416
Requested Range Not Satisfiable</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> I think too
Silvia</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to summarise the options for
4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page [recorded
in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-79
- Summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty
TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page [on Michael Hausenblas - due
2009-05-20].</p>
<p class='phone'>For all the TC returning EMPTY, what should
the response be to the UA be (see HTTP codes)?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> i think 416 if and
only if the fragment range was given in an HTTP Range request
header; a different error notification method otherwise :-)</p>
<p class='phone'>We need to have these resolutions (on which
HTTP codes we decide to use) written down</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> conrad: I assumed
that, too</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> eg. #track= will not
be handled through Range request</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> RESOLVED: The
WG agrees that empty is not an error (as in 404) but a
recoverable state</p>
<p class='phone'>Summarize what would the different responses
be depending on the request (range request, others)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> i agree with
silvia</p>
<p class='phone'>If the UA request a fragment of the entire
duration, it should get notified with 206</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> but 200 for TC0</p>
<p class='phone'>thanks conrad</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> client should ignore
stupid request and not bother wasting the server's time</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: We
agree that the HTTP response code should be 200 for
TC0000</strong></p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: We
agree that the HTTP response code should be 200 for TC0000,
TC0001 should be 200 and the UA strip what's behind the
#</strong></p>
<p class='phone'>For TC0002-6, Michael as an action</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> so that #t=,
-> # which makes TC0001 == TC0000 ;)</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: The WG
agrees that empty responses is NOT an error, so it's not a
404</strong></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> +1 mhausenblas (and
if we don't specify the details, implementers will choose
arbitrarily :)</p>
<p class='phone'>It takes a long time to go through the TC, we
need to continue doing so. Michael, with our resolutions, will
be able to reflect changes on the Wiki. Thanks Michael</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> ;) true,
conrad. sad but true ;)</p>
<p class='phone'>we are running out of time, and closing the
teleconf for today.</p>
<p class='phone'>Nothing futher to discuss? no!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> ok!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> cool :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> thanks all :-)</p>
<p class='phone'>Thanks you everyone! Have a nice week!</p>
<p class='phone'>Bye</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> [adjourned]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> hang on</p>
<p class='phone'>trackbot, status</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to
summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007
in a Wiki page [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
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$Date: 2009/05/13 14:55:32 $
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