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  <title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 01 Apr
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  <h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>01 Apr 2009</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Mar/0089.html'>
  Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>Erik, Davy, Jack, Raphael, Silvia</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Michael, Yves, Conrad</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>Erik, Raphael</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>Raphael</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">1. Admin</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">2. F2F meeting</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">3. WD Document</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">4. Implementation</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 01 April
    2009</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; Scribe: Raphael</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; scribenick:
    raphael</p>

    <h3 id="item01">1. Admin</h3>

    <p class='phone'>Propose to accept the minutes of 25/03?</p>

    <p class='phone'>YEs</p>

    <p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: minutes
    of 25/03 are accepted</strong></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> should we move the
    telecon hour, to be more convenient for Silvia ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I will miss one telecon
    every two weeks</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> proposal to have the
    telecon 2 hours later<br />
    ... to be more convenient for Silvia</p><a name="action01" id=
    "action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael asks Silvia if she would like
    to have the telecon 2 hours later [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - Raphael</p>

    <p class='phone'>trackbot, status</p><a name="action02" id=
    "action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphaël asks Silvia if she would like
    to have the telecon 2 hours later [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-54
    - Asks Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours
    later [on Raphaël Troncy - due 2009-04-08].</p>

    <h3 id="item02">2. F2F meeting</h3>

    <p class='phone'>Erik list the participants: Michael, Jack,
    Erik, Davy, Raphael, Conrad, David, Franck, Guillaume</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> + Yves / Silvia on the
    phone</p>

    <h3 id="item03">3. WD Document</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> we will re-organize the
    section 5 significantly</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> my proposal, finish the
    document by next Wed 8 of April, and vote for publishing the
    document<br />
    ... in our next telecon<br />
    ... make a quick publication request</p>

    <p class='phone'>and hope to have the document published on the
    9th</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> agree</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> Michael took my action,
    because I was busy ... but perhaps I can take over<br />
    ... I will send an email to Michael, to ask him if I can take
    over</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> difference between
    reference and informative sections?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> informative parts are
    just for giving hints to the reader, generally dtd or
    schemas</p>

    <p class='phone'>3.1: Syntax</p>

    <p class='phone'>Problem 1: not use '%' but spell
    it</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to change the formal grammar to
    have 'percent' spelled [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-55
    - Change the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled [on Yves
    Lafon - due 2009-04-08].</p>

    <p class='phone'>Problem 2: use of single quote (') and
    sub-delims in utf8string</p><a name="action04" id=
    "action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to change the formal grammar to
    have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones in utf8string and
    _not_ a set of pchars [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-56
    - Change the formal grammar to have unreserved characters +
    %-escaped ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars [on Yves
    Lafon - due 2009-04-08].</p>

    <p class='phone'>3.2: Technologies Survey</p>

    <p class='phone'>Erik and Davy will work on it on Monday /
    Tuesday</p>

    <p class='phone'>3.3: HTTP implementation</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-52</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-52 Replace
    all examples in the HTTP implementation wiki page with the
    video Jack took closed</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> how can I have the byte
    ranges that correspond to my temporal interval?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> now we are entering into a
    different problem, that is, should we do transcoding or
    not?<br />
    ... the bytes range will be different depending on transcoding
    or not<br />
    ... I have just sent an email stating we should consider more
    the user<br />
    ... see: <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Apr/0003.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Apr/0003.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I think we should go for
    your option 2, and define what is reasonable<br />
    ... what is the point 4? Is it related to the in-context
    discussion?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> no, no, no</p>

    <p class='phone'>Point 5: we leave that away, we haven't
    specified what the spatial cropping will actually do!</p>

    <p class='phone'>Point 3: it seems to be related to the issue:
    transcoding or not</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> if we want to re-syn the
    audio and video, then we need to transcode</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> what is the worst thing
    that can happen?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> the audio and video might
    not be aligned</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> the reason while I use a
    wget example, is that you want to store this piece and re-use
    it later on</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> my proposal was to do no
    transcoding and have a reasonable out-of-synch<br />
    ... same than for the I-Frame<br />
    ... we choose the closest timeframe</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> what is reasonable?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I think there is studies
    which show what is the largest not-synch temporal interval that
    users can support<br />
    ... you and I have different interpretation of what we allow
    for transcoding<br />
    ... I prefer Jack's interpretation</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I had interpreted it as "we
    will not standardise any type of fragmenting that we think
    cannot be implemented without using transcoding".</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I interpret it as "an
    implementation is not allowed to do any transcoding".</p>

    <p class='phone'>Davy also now prefers Jack's
    interpretation</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I think we can standardize
    a spec that can be implemented without transcoding</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I'm also now confused,
    it is different from your previous statement</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> if we have no boundary
    cases for media fragments, it should work</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> should we make the
    algorithm in the spec, that says, jump to the previous I-Frame,
    etc.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> no, we should have in the
    spec, the user expectation</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> we should send larger
    sequence, in order to not transcode</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1 to Silvia</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1 to Silvia</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> get wider intervals, on a
    best-effort basis</p>

    <h3 id="item04">4. Implementation</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> talk about the new ogg
    spec</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; I think mp4 is also
    capable of skipping frames</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> the YouTube player is
    also working on a best effort, if you click on a time offset,
    then the player goes to the closest frame he can start to
    play</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> what is the closest? can
    it be after?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I think it always goes
    back in time<br />
    ... I need to check, but this is my experience</p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-53</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-53 Check
    whether ffmpeg can slide movies easily, need for implementation
    on client and server side closed</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jackjansen</cite>&gt; give me an
    action</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Jack to enter formally in the tracker
    the ISSUE he has found, regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial
    cropping [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-57
    - Enter formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found,
    regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial cropping [on Jack
    Jansen - due 2009-04-08].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I would like to have the
    telecon 2 hours later<br />
    ... I think the section use case and requirements is ready</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; I agree</p>

    <p class='phone'>Look at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/HTTP_implementation</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; Looking</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Gui</cite>&gt; I am all sorry for
    myself, I didn't know I was late till now ! :-( I thought we
    were back to normal hours.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I will use our platform to
    discover the mapping between seconds and bytes for this
    particular video<br />
    ... and update the wiki</p>

    <p class='phone'>No, AOB, Meeting adjourned</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Jack to enter
  formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found, regarding a)
  transcoding and b) spatial cropping [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael asks
  Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphaël asks
  Silvia if she would like to have the telecon 2 hours later
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to change
  the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled [recorded in
  <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">
  http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yves to change
  the formal grammar to have unreserved characters + %-escaped ones
  in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
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