17-mediafrag-minutes.html
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 17 Feb
2010</title>
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<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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"48" width="72" /></a></p>
<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>17 Feb 2010</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010Feb/0037.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Jack, Yves, Raphael, Silvia, Michael, Conrad, Erik</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Davy</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Erik, Raphael</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Raphael</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">1. ADmin</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">2. F2F Agenda</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">3. SPECIFICATION</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">4. Test Cases</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">5. AOB</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 17 February
2010</p>
<p class='phone'>Silvia, are you planning to join?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> ACTION-140?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-140 --
Michael Hausenblas to create a more readable version of the TC
classification at <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc</a>
-- due 2010-02-17 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/140">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/140</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2008%2FWebVideo%2FFragments%2FTC%2Fmftc2html.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2008%2FWebVideo%2FFragments%2FTC%2Fmftc.rdf&content-type=&submit=transform">
http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2008%2FWebVideo%2FFragments%2FTC%2Fmftc2html.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2008%2FWebVideo%2FFragments%2FTC%2Fmftc.rdf&content-type=&submit=transform</a></p>
<h3 id="item01">1. ADmin</h3>
<p class='phone'>Accept the minutes at <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/10-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> +1</p>
<h3 id="item02">2. F2F Agenda</h3>
<p class='phone'>F2F Meeting</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FithF2FAgenda">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/FithF2FAgenda</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: the agenda
is open for suggestions</p>
<h3 id="item03">3. SPECIFICATION</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> * ACTION-134: Erik
to mark up the spec with normative and informative classes
[postpone?]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> * ACTION-139: Silvia
to mark up specified sections as implementable</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: silvia is
not here but she has done 138 and 138 (?)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> close action-138</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-138 Include
Erik's diagrams into specification closed</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> close action-139</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-139 Mark up
specified sections as implementable closed</p>
<p class='phone'>Current document: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: regarding
section 5.1.3</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#processing-name-value-lists">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#processing-name-value-lists</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: silvia
thinks we should also mark it as implementable</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: the only
thing refraining her from that atm is an objection from
jack</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: jack notes
that we have not yet concluded if an unspecified dimension
should be a zero or not</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: we need to
decide how strict/lax we need to be with interpretations of the
spec</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> what happens with
<a href=
"http://www.example.com/foo.m4a#t=12-20&this_is_not_a_mediafrag">
http://www.example.com/foo.m4a#t=12-20&this_is_not_a_mediafrag</a>
will return a valid mediafrag using 5.1.3</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: i still think
that being relaxed is fine, but if something is over-specified,
such as specifying two time prefixes or two spatial prefixes,
there would be too much scope for error</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: for every
cascading rule you can find a use case, where one overrides or
extends the other</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: i don't feel
confident about stating that one rule can handle 90% of
cases</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: if there is no
clear rule, eg. saying t=100,200&t=20,40, then how should
that be interpreted? there are 3 obvious possible
interpretations, and each has people backing it</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: i'm perfectly
happy with name=value pairs we don't understand, that is up to
implementations</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: if there is a
name=value pair that we do understand, we should be stricter
about that</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> yves: this is test
3e (?) -- we should be clear about handling of things that are
not recognized, partial media fragments etc.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> yves: a validator
should provide errors</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: i agree</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael; for a good
combination of things that we can recognize, jack is saying
that we shouldn't try to understand what they are doing, but
specify a rule</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> things that can be
recovered could be close strings, like xyhw -> xywh (obvious
typo)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: yes, according
to our spec it should throw an error</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: just like we
cannot accept id and t combined should give the same result as
two t's combined</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> My pref would
by: replace all "Any previously set value is discarded" with
"it is an error if a value was previously set"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: we need to
resolve how these ambiguous cases and combined parameters are
handled</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: i think what
jack in particular objected to was philip's suggestion that any
previous key=value settings are discarded on error</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> rssagent, draft
minutes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> +1 to error instead of
discarding</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: i would
suggest that instead of discarding newly set disallowed values,
an error should be thrown</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: from a
(parser/UA) implementors point of view, simply discarding seems
simpler, but a content author may expect cascading</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> I can think of an
intersection of t #t=10,20&t=6,12&intersect</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> not a mediafrag =>
mediafrag recognition fails</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: i cannot see
of a clear rule that prefers discarding or cascading, so we
should just specify an error</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> we cannot find a general
way for cascading rules, so throw an error</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> (defined in another
spec, for example)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: i agree --
discarding would just encourage lazy programming</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> yves: if there is no
specification for an intersection, no problem, but in our case
if we don't flag an error then we have to specify it as a valid
media fragment</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> yves: i agree that
it should be an error</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> conrad: what is an
error</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: it is not a
media fragment</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: it must be
simply discarded and the fragment cannot be resolved as a media
fragment</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: [analogy to
html page]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> We seem to have
moved to 5.1.5</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: but in the
case of an HTML UA, everything is happening within the UA, not
on the network</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: i think it
is the same for both html and media resources</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> (and I think
that that editorial that is attributed to Michael is actually
mine:-)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: case 1) for
html if the # cannot be resolved, the full resource is
displayed</p>
<p class='phone'>yes Jack, but you defer it to Michael a long
time ago :-)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: for media,
if the # cannot be understood, the whole resource is shown from
the beginning</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> good:-)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: case 2) if
the resource has previously been loaded: same behaviour, HTML
goes to top of page, media should go to the beginning</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> raphael: perhaps we
should merge section 5.1.3, 5.1.5 on these topics</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: for error
handling, i think we should make sure that put this in
informative text not normative text</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: because the
best case for handling an error is up to the application</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> also authoring tools
should report errors</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> jack: in the case of
eg. pay-per-view content the UA may offer to interfere and
confirm with the user</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: i agree</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> there is the proposal of
making 5.1.5 into a full section 6</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: michael, did
you get a chance to review the list of error cases presented
last week</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Michael: I
agree</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> silvia, url?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> silence ==
agreement ;)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: 5.1.5: we
need to look at errors in each of the dimensions (time, track,
id)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: and then if
we look at combined dimensions then we need more cases</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> silvia: hence i'm
suggesting to make it into a full section</p><a name="action01"
id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to add a paragraph in the
section 5.2.1 that further clarify the role of the UA for
rendering a media fragment [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-141
- Add a paragraph in the section 5.2.1 that further clarify the
role of the UA for rendering a media fragment [on Conrad Parker
- due 2010-02-24].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> hey!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> mhausenblas, you
wanted to note re appendix</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> michael: i would
prefer to have the POV of an implementer that needs/wants to
run the test cases</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> michael: from
implementer's pov it should be as easy as possible to do their
[verification?] work</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> scribenick:
Raphael</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> scribenick:
raphael</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Suggestion:</cite> replace all "Any
previously set value is discarded" with "it is an error if a
value was previously set" in 5.1.3 and remove editorial note of
Jack</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>>
s/Suggegstion/Proposal:</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Yves</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><strong class='resolution'>RESOLUTION: replace
all "Any previously set value is discarded" with "it is an
error if a value was previously set" in 5.1.3 and remove
editorial note of Jack</strong></p><a name="action02" id=
"action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Troncy to apply this change in the
section 5.1.3 (jack's note) [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-142
- Apply this change in the section 5.1.3 (jack's note) [on
Raphaël Troncy - due 2010-02-24].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Providing this change,
can we mark this section as implementable?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> adding one more note about
id?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I would just say that
everything concerning the time dimension is implementable, the
rest is still under discussion</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> I would not move 5.1.5 in
an Appendix</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I would move a section 6
and see later if we move it in an appendix depending the length
of the document</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Silvia to move 5.1.5 into a new
section [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-143
- Move 5.1.5 into a new section [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due
2010-02-24].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Section 5.1.1 is related
to ISSUE-13</p>
<p class='phone'>ISSUE-13?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ISSUE-13 -- Write
a IETF draft for proposing how to register the fragment scheme
for all media types -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/13">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/13</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> move this section to the
top after the introduction</p><a name="action04" id=
"action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Silvia to move the section 5.1.1 to
the top [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-144
- Move the section 5.1.1 to the top [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due
2010-02-24].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Section 5.1.4, general
interpretation of media fragments, we have so far a HTML5
browser type of UA in mind<br />
... What are the other UA we are talking about?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I'm not sure if we should
say that all browsers should render the same way</p>
<p class='phone'>ACTION-141?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-141 --
Conrad Parker to add a paragraph in the section 5.2.1 that
further clarify the role of the UA for rendering a media
fragment -- due 2010-02-24 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/141">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/141</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> perhaps start this
discussion within the HTML5 fora</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> a non-browser UA
could be a video editor as a consumer of media fragments</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> maybe we should turn the
rendering into a new section as well</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I like that too</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> so we have sections about
Syntax, Formal processing and then Guidelines and Errors</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> how far we should go in
terms of saying something about rendering of a media fragment
is still a matter of discussion</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> other UA ... video
editor, qt player, youtube/dailymotion iPhone app, etc.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I will start this
dicussion thread within the Accessibility task Force of the
HTML5 WG</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> but also think
non-rendering apps (metadata annotation)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> there are developers
there that will udnerstand what we are talking about</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I'm uncomfortable with
the fact that sections 3, 4.1 and 5.1.1 are marked as
non-normative<br />
... could we just comment that?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I tend to ignore that, I
rather looked at implementable or not</p>
<h3 id="item04">4. Test Cases</h3>
<p class='phone'>ACTON-140?</p>
<p class='phone'>ACTION-140?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-140 --
Michael Hausenblas to create a more readable version of the TC
classification at <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc</a>
-- due 2010-02-17 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/140">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/140</a></p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2008%2FWebVideo%2FFragments%2FTC%2Fmftc2html.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2008%2FWebVideo%2FFragments%2FTC%2Fmftc.rdf&content-type=&submit=transform">
http://www.w3.org/2005/08/online_xslt/xslt?xslfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2008%2FWebVideo%2FFragments%2FTC%2Fmftc2html.xslt&xmlfile=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.w3.org%2F2008%2FWebVideo%2FFragments%2FTC%2Fmftc.rdf&content-type=&submit=transform</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> just simple table
layout<br />
... do you have any suggestions?</p>
<p class='phone'>close ACTION-140</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-140 Create
a more readable version of the TC classification at <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/TC/mftc</a>
closed</p>
<h3 id="item05">5. AOB</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> I have mentionned a list
of errors for the time dimension<br />
... I would appreciate if we could include that into the
TC<br />
... and add them in the Section 6<br />
... it would be good if could agree on that</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> I will add these TC in
the good place (my action-118) by next week</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> ok, so we discuss that
next week</p>
<p class='phone'>[adjourned]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> FYI: I've now
updated <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesOverview">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesOverview</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> so that there
is a direct link to the MFTC categorisation and tabular
rendering</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> cya</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>></p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to add a
paragraph in the section 5.2.1 that further clarify the role of
the UA for rendering a media fragment [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Silvia to move
5.1.5 into a new section [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Silvia to move
the section 5.1.1 to the top [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Troncy to apply
this change in the section 5.1.3 (jack's note) [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/02/17-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
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Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
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$Date: 2010/02/17 12:55:57 $
</address>
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