19-swxg-irc.html
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<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
<html xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml">
<head>
<title>IRC log of swxg on 2010-05-19</title>
<meta name="generator" content="$Id: logger,v 1.75.1.95 2009/03/31 03:49:58 swick Exp $" />
<style type="text/css">
.IRC { font-family: sans-serif }
</style>
</head>
<body>
<h1>IRC log of swxg on 2010-05-19</h1>
<p><em>Timestamps are in UTC.</em></p>
<dl class="IRC">
<dt id="T14-59-19">14:59:19 [RRSAgent]</dt><dd>RRSAgent has joined #swxg</dd>
<dt id="T14-59-19-1">14:59:19 [RRSAgent]</dt><dd>logging to <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-swxg-irc">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-swxg-irc</a></dd>
<dt id="T14-59-21">14:59:21 [trackbot]</dt><dd>RRSAgent, make logs world</dd>
<dt id="T14-59-21-1">14:59:21 [Zakim]</dt><dd>Zakim has joined #swxg</dd>
<dt id="T14-59-23">14:59:23 [trackbot]</dt><dd>Zakim, this will be 7994</dd>
<dt id="T14-59-23-1">14:59:23 [Zakim]</dt><dd>ok, trackbot; I see INC_SWXG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute</dd>
<dt id="T14-59-24">14:59:24 [trackbot]</dt><dd>Meeting: Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</dd>
<dt id="T14-59-24-1">14:59:24 [trackbot]</dt><dd>Date: 19 May 2010</dd>
<dt id="T15-00-29">15:00:29 [mischat]</dt><dd>mischat has joined #swxg</dd>
<dt id="T15-01-06">15:01:06 [tpa]</dt><dd>tpa has joined #swxg</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-10">15:02:10 [MacTed]</dt><dd>Zakim, this is 7994</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-10-1">15:02:10 [Zakim]</dt><dd>ok, MacTed; that matches INC_SWXG()11:00AM</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-11">15:02:11 [rreck]</dt><dd>rreck has joined #SWXG</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-14">15:02:14 [MacTed]</dt><dd>Zakim, who's here</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-14-1">15:02:14 [Zakim]</dt><dd>MacTed, you need to end that query with '?'</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-18">15:02:18 [MacTed]</dt><dd>Zakim, who's here?</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-18-1">15:02:18 [Zakim]</dt><dd>On the phone I see cperey, DKA, OpenLink_Software</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-20">15:02:20 [mischat]</dt><dd>mmm </dd>
<dt id="T15-02-22">15:02:22 [mischat]</dt><dd>i am getting </dd>
<dt id="T15-02-28">15:02:28 [mischat]</dt><dd>"this passcode is not valid" </dd>
<dt id="T15-02-28-1">15:02:28 [MacTed]</dt><dd>Zakim, OpenLink_Software is temporarily me</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-28-2">15:02:28 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+MacTed; got it</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-30">15:02:30 [MacTed]</dt><dd>Zakim, muteme</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-30-1">15:02:30 [Zakim]</dt><dd>I don't understand 'muteme', MacTed</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-33">15:02:33 [MacTed]</dt><dd>Zakim, mute me</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-33-1">15:02:33 [Zakim]</dt><dd>MacTed should now be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-35">15:02:35 [mischat]</dt><dd>when i dial into the bristol number </dd>
<dt id="T15-02-41">15:02:41 [DKA]</dt><dd>harry are you on your way?</dd>
<dt id="T15-02-57">15:02:57 [mischat]</dt><dd>has anyone managed to join by calling the bristol number ?</dd>
<dt id="T15-03-08">15:03:08 [mischat]</dt><dd>yep to me harry or to dan ?</dd>
<dt id="T15-03-21">15:03:21 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+??P13</dd>
<dt id="T15-03-30">15:03:30 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>Zakim, ??P13 is hhalpin</dd>
<dt id="T15-03-30-1">15:03:30 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+hhalpin; got it</dd>
<dt id="T15-03-37">15:03:37 [DKA]</dt><dd>I'm calling in thru the UK number.</dd>
<dt id="T15-03-40">15:03:40 [mischat]</dt><dd>ok</dd>
<dt id="T15-03-42">15:03:42 [mischat]</dt><dd>thanks</dd>
<dt id="T15-03-57">15:03:57 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+SteveH</dd>
<dt id="T15-03-59">15:03:59 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>chair: DKA</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-07">15:04:07 [mischat]</dt><dd>zakim, +SteveH is me </dd>
<dt id="T15-04-07-1">15:04:07 [Zakim]</dt><dd>sorry, mischat, I do not recognize a party named '+SteveH'</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-12">15:04:12 [FabGandon]</dt><dd>FabGandon has joined #swxg</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-15">15:04:15 [mischat]</dt><dd>zakim, SteveH is me </dd>
<dt id="T15-04-15-1">15:04:15 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+mischat; got it</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-21">15:04:21 [mischat]</dt><dd>zakim, mute me </dd>
<dt id="T15-04-21-1">15:04:21 [Zakim]</dt><dd>mischat should now be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-35">15:04:35 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>Zakim, pick a scribe</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-35-1">15:04:35 [Zakim]</dt><dd>Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose cperey</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-46">15:04:46 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>Zakim, pick a scribe</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-46-1">15:04:46 [Zakim]</dt><dd>Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DKA</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-49">15:04:49 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>Zakim, pick a scribe</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-49-1">15:04:49 [Zakim]</dt><dd>Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose MacTed (muted)</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-52">15:04:52 [cperey]</dt><dd>haha!</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-55">15:04:55 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>MacTed?</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-56">15:04:56 [cperey]</dt><dd>blah blah blah</dd>
<dt id="T15-04-56-1">15:04:56 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+ +1.218.296.aaaa</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-04">15:05:04 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>Zakim, pick a scribe</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-04-1">15:05:04 [Zakim]</dt><dd>Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-06">15:05:06 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>Zakim, pick a scribe</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-06-1">15:05:06 [Zakim]</dt><dd>Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose hhalpin</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-08">15:05:08 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>Zakim, pick a scribe</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-08-1">15:05:08 [Zakim]</dt><dd>Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose mischat (muted)</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-11">15:05:11 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>mischa?</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-18">15:05:18 [mischat]</dt><dd>sighes ... </dd>
<dt id="T15-05-19">15:05:19 [mischat]</dt><dd>ok</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-23">15:05:23 [cperey]</dt><dd>tim anglade</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-23-1">15:05:23 [DKA]</dt><dd>zakim, who is here?</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-23-2">15:05:23 [Zakim]</dt><dd>On the phone I see cperey, DKA, MacTed (muted), hhalpin, mischat (muted), +1.218.296.aaaa</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-33">15:05:33 [rreck]</dt><dd>zakim, +1.218.296.aaaa is me</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-33-1">15:05:33 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+rreck; got it</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-40">15:05:40 [rreck]</dt><dd>zakim, mute me</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-40-1">15:05:40 [Zakim]</dt><dd>rreck should now be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-05-51">15:05:51 [caludio]</dt><dd>caludio has joined #swxg</dd>
<dt id="T15-06-09">15:06:09 [hhalpin]</dt><dd><a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/12-swxg-minutes.html</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-06-35">15:06:35 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>PROPOSAL: Approve the May 12th meeting minutes as appropriate and correct?</dd>
<dt id="T15-06-52">15:06:52 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>hhalpin has changed the topic to: May 19th</dd>
<dt id="T15-06-58">15:06:58 [mischat]</dt><dd>rrs-agent is loggin to <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-swxg-irc">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-swxg-irc</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-07-11">15:07:11 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-14">15:07:14 [cperey]</dt><dd>thanks!</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-15">15:07:15 [mischat]</dt><dd>cperey: is looking at the irc room title</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-15-1">15:07:15 [DKA]</dt><dd>+1</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-19">15:07:19 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+??P25</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-20">15:07:20 [mischat]</dt><dd>it should be a problem </dd>
<dt id="T15-07-24">15:07:24 [mischat]</dt><dd>shouldn't</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-27">15:07:27 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>APPROVED: May 12th meeting minutes are appropriate and correct</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-31">15:07:31 [melvster]</dt><dd>Zakim, ??P25 is me</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-31-1">15:07:31 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+melvster; got it</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-44">15:07:44 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>cperey regrets next week</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-45">15:07:45 [mischat]</dt><dd>christine can't make the call next week</dd>
<dt id="T15-07-48">15:07:48 [rreck]</dt><dd>+1 meet again</dd>
<dt id="T15-08-04">15:08:04 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1 on jumping to high-level report</dd>
<dt id="T15-08-12">15:08:12 [mischat]</dt><dd>straight into talk about the editorial report</dd>
<dt id="T15-08-19">15:08:19 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>topic: High-level structure for final report</dd>
<dt id="T15-08-22">15:08:22 [DKA]</dt><dd><a href="http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReportElementsDiscussion">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReportElementsDiscussion</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-08-27">15:08:27 [DKA]</dt><dd>Topic: Final Report</dd>
<dt id="T15-08-29">15:08:29 [mischat]</dt><dd>christine to talk about the high-level structure of the final report</dd>
<dt id="T15-08-51">15:08:51 [mischat]</dt><dd>cperey, wants to tell a story, about what we have been doing, and what we propose as an outcome </dd>
<dt id="T15-09-13">15:09:13 [mischat]</dt><dd>cperey, this is what christine thinks our mandate is. proposing the outcome </dd>
<dt id="T15-09-13-1">15:09:13 [oshani]</dt><dd>oshani has joined #swxg</dd>
<dt id="T15-09-55">15:09:55 [mischat]</dt><dd>report should start with a one page summary, highlighting personal, and business related investigations </dd>
<dt id="T15-10-15">15:10:15 [rreck]</dt><dd>cperey: fwiw, i think this looks like a great structure</dd>
<dt id="T15-10-16">15:10:16 [mischat]</dt><dd>the table of content should include all the work we have undertaken in the XG</dd>
<dt id="T15-10-26">15:10:26 [mischat]</dt><dd>should we have 1 or 2 reports ?</dd>
<dt id="T15-10-54">15:10:54 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1 sounds good to me</dd>
<dt id="T15-11-01">15:11:01 [rreck]</dt><dd>i think it makes sense to list presenters chronologically</dd>
<dt id="T15-11-10">15:11:10 [mischat]</dt><dd>hopefully today we will have a chance to go over the table contents and decided what should be in the document and what shouldn't </dd>
<dt id="T15-11-17">15:11:17 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>ron - that's usually done in acknowledgements</dd>
<dt id="T15-11-20">15:11:20 [mischat]</dt><dd>any questions form the room?</dd>
<dt id="T15-11-27">15:11:27 [rreck]</dt><dd>what are the drawbacks of a single report? length?</dd>
<dt id="T15-11-36">15:11:36 [pchampin]</dt><dd>pchampin has joined #swxg</dd>
<dt id="T15-11-49">15:11:49 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>notes that summaries haven't been done for most.</dd>
<dt id="T15-11-52">15:11:52 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>q+</dd>
<dt id="T15-11-57">15:11:57 [DKA]</dt><dd>ack hh</dd>
<dt id="T15-12-01">15:12:01 [rreck]</dt><dd>i think the pointers could be in an appendix</dd>
<dt id="T15-12-11">15:12:11 [mischat]</dt><dd>all the documents and links given to us should be put in the appendix </dd>
<dt id="T15-12-15">15:12:15 [rreck]</dt><dd>focus?</dd>
<dt id="T15-12-15-1">15:12:15 [mischat]</dt><dd>ack hhalpin </dd>
<dt id="T15-12-25">15:12:25 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+ +95177aabb</dd>
<dt id="T15-12-47">15:12:47 [mischat]</dt><dd>hhalpin, final reports are usually short, and shouldn't go over 30 pages </dd>
<dt id="T15-12-54">15:12:54 [mischat]</dt><dd>so that people end up actually reading it </dd>
<dt id="T15-13-24">15:13:24 [mischat]</dt><dd>hhalpin, the final document shouldn't be intimidating for people to read </dd>
<dt id="T15-13-36">15:13:36 [caludio]</dt><dd>shouldn't the report include concrete standardization proposals?</dd>
<dt id="T15-13-52">15:13:52 [mischat]</dt><dd>it is an XG and not a WG</dd>
<dt id="T15-13-56">15:13:56 [mischat]</dt><dd>caludio: ^^</dd>
<dt id="T15-14-15">15:14:15 [caludio]</dt><dd>right but these would be proposals not charters</dd>
<dt id="T15-14-21">15:14:21 [rreck]</dt><dd>i think possibly 2 reports, thereby allowing a single report to be best focused on the thesis</dd>
<dt id="T15-14-48">15:14:48 [rreck]</dt><dd>+1 an effort to ensure longevity</dd>
<dt id="T15-14-53">15:14:53 [tinkster]</dt><dd>IIRC we can suggest future ideas for W3C recommendations, but can't issue W3C recs ourselves. </dd>
<dt id="T15-14-56">15:14:56 [hhalpin]</dt><dd><a href="http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/rdb2rdf/RDB2RDF_SurveyReport.pdf">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/rdb2rdf/RDB2RDF_SurveyReport.pdf</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-15-08">15:15:08 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>That's a good sample report - about 15 pages long, and did lead to a Working Group</dd>
<dt id="T15-15-09">15:15:09 [mischat]</dt><dd>for the longevity of the materials we should include all of the pointers and text collected in the XG should be put into a report so that they don't get lost </dd>
<dt id="T15-15-21">15:15:21 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>Ideally, AC reps should read the final report.</dd>
<dt id="T15-15-30">15:15:30 [rreck]</dt><dd>zakim, DKA is straighman</dd>
<dt id="T15-15-30-1">15:15:30 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+straighman; got it</dd>
<dt id="T15-15-35">15:15:35 [rreck]</dt><dd>oops sorry</dd>
<dt id="T15-15-43">15:15:43 [mischat]</dt><dd>half of the report to be technical , and half of the report to be about the high-level issues </dd>
<dt id="T15-15-55">15:15:55 [rreck]</dt><dd>zakim, straighman is DKA</dd>
<dt id="T15-15-55-1">15:15:55 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+DKA; got it</dd>
<dt id="T15-16-30">15:16:30 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>One would be surprised how much work we overviewed in the last year :)</dd>
<dt id="T15-16-54">15:16:54 [DKA]</dt><dd>PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We will go for one report including high-level and technical material.</dd>
<dt id="T15-16-55">15:16:55 [mischat]</dt><dd>the report should be meeting the needs of the readers, christine thinks that the readers need to know, what we did, what our conclusions are, and what are recommendations are </dd>
<dt id="T15-17-27">15:17:27 [mischat]</dt><dd>2nd target audience, people who participated/contributors to the XG </dd>
<dt id="T15-17-38">15:17:38 [rreck]</dt><dd>+1 concise</dd>
<dt id="T15-17-47">15:17:47 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1 concise</dd>
<dt id="T15-17-47-1">15:17:47 [melvster]</dt><dd>the document above is 15 pages</dd>
<dt id="T15-17-54">15:17:54 [melvster]</dt><dd>+1 concise</dd>
<dt id="T15-17-58">15:17:58 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>I'd put a limit on it of about 30 pages.</dd>
<dt id="T15-18-00">15:18:00 [Zakim]</dt><dd>-pchampin</dd>
<dt id="T15-18-09">15:18:09 [mischat]</dt><dd>and to the future for the Social Web, i.e. people we talked to and people which were in the XG, and poeple which are potentially going to join any future WG</dd>
<dt id="T15-18-14">15:18:14 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>DKA? Want to formally take a vote on that?</dd>
<dt id="T15-18-32">15:18:32 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>any objections?</dd>
<dt id="T15-18-33">15:18:33 [cperey]</dt><dd>2nd target audience includes people thinking of contributing to the WG</dd>
<dt id="T15-18-37">15:18:37 [rreck]</dt><dd>+1 single document</dd>
<dt id="T15-18-39">15:18:39 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>or strong feelings in the other directions?</dd>
<dt id="T15-18-45">15:18:45 [mischat]</dt><dd>+1 single document</dd>
<dt id="T15-18-49">15:18:49 [mischat]</dt><dd>+1 <= 30 pages </dd>
<dt id="T15-19-07">15:19:07 [melvster]</dt><dd>+1 single document</dd>
<dt id="T15-19-10">15:19:10 [DKA]</dt><dd>+1 to <= 30 pages</dd>
<dt id="T15-19-25">15:19:25 [melvster]</dt><dd>christene the categories above were:</dd>
<dt id="T15-19-26">15:19:26 [melvster]</dt><dd>1. Introduction </dd>
<dt id="T15-19-26-1">15:19:26 [mischat]</dt><dd>dan, notices that is consensus when it comes to a concise single report to be the output of the XG</dd>
<dt id="T15-19-26-2">15:19:26 [melvster]</dt><dd>2. Reference Framework for Survey of RDB2RDF Mapping Approaches </dd>
<dt id="T15-19-26-3">15:19:26 [melvster]</dt><dd>3. Survey of RDB to RDF Mapping Approaches </dd>
<dt id="T15-19-26-4">15:19:26 [melvster]</dt><dd>4. Discussions </dd>
<dt id="T15-19-26-5">15:19:26 [melvster]</dt><dd>5. Conclusions </dd>
<dt id="T15-19-28">15:19:28 [melvster]</dt><dd>6. Acknowledgements </dd>
<dt id="T15-19-31">15:19:31 [melvster]</dt><dd>7. References </dd>
<dt id="T15-19-44">15:19:44 [Zakim]</dt><dd>+pchampin</dd>
<dt id="T15-20-21">15:20:21 [mischat]</dt><dd>so we should look at the Wiki, and see which bits of the wiki we want to include into the final report</dd>
<dt id="T15-20-29">15:20:29 [rreck]</dt><dd>it seems that the "State of the Social Web" is in flux over the time we have been meeting</dd>
<dt id="T15-20-52">15:20:52 [mischat]</dt><dd>christine suggests that we define how many pages we are going to allocate for each section </dd>
<dt id="T15-20-56">15:20:56 [rreck]</dt><dd>audience is part of our charter isnt it?></dd>
<dt id="T15-21-02">15:21:02 [mischat]</dt><dd>we should now go through this table of cotents </dd>
<dt id="T15-21-39">15:21:39 [mischat]</dt><dd>executive summary (1 page) </dd>
<dt id="T15-21-51">15:21:51 [mischat]</dt><dd>then a table of contents </dd>
<dt id="T15-21-54">15:21:54 [rreck]</dt><dd>+1 executive summary should be "miniskirtish"</dd>
<dt id="T15-21-58">15:21:58 [mischat]</dt><dd>introductions (1-2 pages)</dd>
<dt id="T15-22-20">15:22:20 [mischat]</dt><dd>description of the audience to go into the introduction </dd>
<dt id="T15-22-25">15:22:25 [rreck]</dt><dd>audience is like a paragraph is it not?</dd>
<dt id="T15-22-49">15:22:49 [mischat]</dt><dd>who are the intended readers -> a few sentences in the introduction</dd>
<dt id="T15-22-59">15:22:59 [rreck]</dt><dd>dont those principles come from our charter?</dd>
<dt id="T15-23-14">15:23:14 [mischat]</dt><dd>rreck: ask a question</dd>
<dt id="T15-23-14-1">15:23:14 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>we have guiding principles in charter</dd>
<dt id="T15-23-47">15:23:47 [rreck]</dt><dd>isnt cperey on IRC?</dd>
<dt id="T15-23-50">15:23:50 [hhalpin]</dt><dd><a href="http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-24-26">15:24:26 [rreck]</dt><dd>i dont *really* have a question</dd>
<dt id="T15-24-31">15:24:31 [DKA]</dt><dd>q?</dd>
<dt id="T15-24-42">15:24:42 [mischat]</dt><dd>ronald askes if, our guiding principles are in the charter ? Dan states that we can extract this information from the charter</dd>
<dt id="T15-24-54">15:24:54 [mischat]</dt><dd>intro <= 2 pages </dd>
<dt id="T15-25-23">15:25:23 [rreck]</dt><dd>+q</dd>
<dt id="T15-25-24">15:25:24 [mischat]</dt><dd>should we have a section on the state of SocialWeb in 2010 </dd>
<dt id="T15-25-28">15:25:28 [rreck]</dt><dd>zakim, unmute me</dd>
<dt id="T15-25-28-1">15:25:28 [Zakim]</dt><dd>rreck should no longer be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-25-32">15:25:32 [mischat]</dt><dd>onesocialweb ;)</dd>
<dt id="T15-25-48">15:25:48 [melvster]</dt><dd>i think this is a good wiki page: <a href="http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Group:GNU_Social/Project_Comparison">http://groups.fsf.org/wiki/Group:GNU_Social/Project_Comparison</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-25-51">15:25:51 [mischat]</dt><dd><a href="http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/05/facebook-rogue/">http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/05/facebook-rogue/</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-26-31">15:26:31 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>q+</dd>
<dt id="T15-26-32">15:26:32 [mischat]</dt><dd>dan, asks if we should reference the wired article about how there is no dedistributed social networks </dd>
<dt id="T15-26-40">15:26:40 [DKA]</dt><dd>+1 to flux</dd>
<dt id="T15-26-47">15:26:47 [mischat]</dt><dd>who was that?</dd>
<dt id="T15-27-12">15:27:12 [rreck]</dt><dd>zakim, mute me</dd>
<dt id="T15-27-12-1">15:27:12 [Zakim]</dt><dd>rreck should now be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-27-16">15:27:16 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>the cambridge study?</dd>
<dt id="T15-27-17">15:27:17 [melvster]</dt><dd>Soeren Preibusch</dd>
<dt id="T15-27-18">15:27:18 [mischat]</dt><dd>joe from cambridge</dd>
<dt id="T15-27-32">15:27:32 [mischat]</dt><dd>first talk </dd>
<dt id="T15-27-35">15:27:35 [melvster]</dt><dd>privacy jungle</dd>
<dt id="T15-27-43">15:27:43 [melvster]</dt><dd><a href="http://preibusch.de/publications/social_networks/privacy_jungle_dataset.htm">http://preibusch.de/publications/social_networks/privacy_jungle_dataset.htm</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-27-54">15:27:54 [rreck]</dt><dd>rreck: the social web is in flux and the contextualization of our recommendations is based, in part, to a response to the tensions we perceive</dd>
<dt id="T15-28-10">15:28:10 [mischat]</dt><dd>ron mentioned that we should mention that given the whole facebook privacy outburst the social web is now in a state of flux</dd>
<dt id="T15-28-46">15:28:46 [rreck]</dt><dd>ownership is the heart of the privacy issue</dd>
<dt id="T15-29-00">15:29:00 [rreck]</dt><dd>which itself is driven on the business case for providers</dd>
<dt id="T15-29-01">15:29:01 [mischat]</dt><dd>christine then mentioned that we could include the cambridge uni privacy jungle dataset and how privacy policies are causing tension with social networking users </dd>
<dt id="T15-29-33">15:29:33 [rreck]</dt><dd>+1 <5</dd>
<dt id="T15-29-39">15:29:39 [mischat]</dt><dd>State of Social Web <= 5 pages </dd>
<dt id="T15-29-43">15:29:43 [mischat]</dt><dd>to follow the introduction </dd>
<dt id="T15-30-21">15:30:21 [rreck]</dt><dd>+1 dka's re-ordering</dd>
<dt id="T15-30-32">15:30:32 [mischat]</dt><dd>dka, suggests that we should go into Use Cases next </dd>
<dt id="T15-30-55">15:30:55 [rreck]</dt><dd>no, i think state of the web should precede</dd>
<dt id="T15-31-19">15:31:19 [mischat]</dt><dd>State of Social Web 2010 -> Use Cases -> Technology as proposed by DKA</dd>
<dt id="T15-31-36">15:31:36 [rreck]</dt><dd>sounds good</dd>
<dt id="T15-31-44">15:31:44 [rreck]</dt><dd>the loaded question</dd>
<dt id="T15-31-50">15:31:50 [mischat]</dt><dd>social web use cases <= 5 pages </dd>
<dt id="T15-31-56">15:31:56 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>a considerable shortening but probably possible</dd>
<dt id="T15-32-03">15:32:03 [mischat]</dt><dd>yeah i think so too</dd>
<dt id="T15-32-27">15:32:27 [rreck]</dt><dd>awesome</dd>
<dt id="T15-32-37">15:32:37 [melvster]</dt><dd><a href="http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReportElementsDiscussion">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReportElementsDiscussion</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-32-46">15:32:46 [rreck]</dt><dd>wiki's are for soundbytes</dd>
<dt id="T15-33-16">15:33:16 [mischat]</dt><dd>Technology gaps or areas where there is lack of agreement , this is an important section of the work </dd>
<dt id="T15-33-25">15:33:25 [rreck]</dt><dd>i agree its central</dd>
<dt id="T15-33-31">15:33:31 [rreck]</dt><dd>maybe in the conclusion?</dd>
<dt id="T15-33-42">15:33:42 [mischat]</dt><dd>q+, where have there been lack of agreements ?</dd>
<dt id="T15-33-46">15:33:46 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1</dd>
<dt id="T15-34-04">15:34:04 [DKA]</dt><dd>q?</dd>
<dt id="T15-34-08">15:34:08 [rreck]</dt><dd>-q</dd>
<dt id="T15-34-13">15:34:13 [DKA]</dt><dd>ack hh</dd>
<dt id="T15-34-17">15:34:17 [rreck]</dt><dd>i blurted already</dd>
<dt id="T15-34-29">15:34:29 [mischat]</dt><dd>dka suggests that the technology gaps are going to be one of the main parts of our report</dd>
<dt id="T15-35-08">15:35:08 [mischat]</dt><dd>hhalpin, suggests we revisit our past speakers to identity which technologies have standards already, and which ones have multiple standards in place </dd>
<dt id="T15-35-15">15:35:15 [mischat]</dt><dd>and that this should educate our final report</dd>
<dt id="T15-35-37">15:35:37 [rreck]</dt><dd>zakim, unmute me</dd>
<dt id="T15-35-37-1">15:35:37 [Zakim]</dt><dd>rreck should no longer be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-36-46">15:36:46 [mischat]</dt><dd>ron, states that he thinks that Use Cases, and Technologies should be subsections of the State of the Social Web 2010 section </dd>
<dt id="T15-37-14">15:37:14 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1</dd>
<dt id="T15-37-20">15:37:20 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>let guest speakers read document...</dd>
<dt id="T15-37-43">15:37:43 [rreck]</dt><dd>cperey correctly points out that usecases also encompass what users could possibly want in the future as well</dd>
<dt id="T15-37-46">15:37:46 [mischat]</dt><dd>dka, doesn't think we shouldn't block on getting feedback from our guest presenters, but we should let them read the document first, before it goes out live</dd>
<dt id="T15-38-13">15:38:13 [rreck]</dt><dd>maybe we can offer speakers to alter what we said about them</dd>
<dt id="T15-38-20">15:38:20 [rreck]</dt><dd>provide them with our deadlines</dd>
<dt id="T15-38-34">15:38:34 [rreck]</dt><dd>when is this due?</dd>
<dt id="T15-38-45">15:38:45 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>its due after summer</dd>
<dt id="T15-38-49">15:38:49 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>sept </dd>
<dt id="T15-38-53">15:38:53 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>1st sept I think.</dd>
<dt id="T15-38-56">15:38:56 [mischat]</dt><dd>chritine, states that if we show the report the experts, it will boost their confidence in our report and our activity</dd>
<dt id="T15-39-00">15:39:00 [mischat]</dt><dd>+q</dd>
<dt id="T15-39-03">15:39:03 [rreck]</dt><dd>so how long would we give them to respond?</dd>
<dt id="T15-39-19">15:39:19 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>we could stretch it to 40 or so.</dd>
<dt id="T15-39-19-1">15:39:19 [DKA]</dt><dd>ack mischat</dd>
<dt id="T15-39-22">15:39:22 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>it's a big field</dd>
<dt id="T15-39-38">15:39:38 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1 mischa</dd>
<dt id="T15-39-59">15:39:59 [mischat]</dt><dd>zakim, mute me </dd>
<dt id="T15-39-59-1">15:39:59 [Zakim]</dt><dd>mischat should now be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-40-11">15:40:11 [mischat]</dt><dd>agreements should read "overlaps"</dd>
<dt id="T15-40-17">15:40:17 [rreck]</dt><dd>business considerations is important</dd>
<dt id="T15-40-31">15:40:31 [rreck]</dt><dd>zakim, unmute me</dd>
<dt id="T15-40-31-1">15:40:31 [Zakim]</dt><dd>rreck was not muted, rreck</dd>
<dt id="T15-40-50">15:40:50 [rreck]</dt><dd>+Q</dd>
<dt id="T15-41-47">15:41:47 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1</dd>
<dt id="T15-41-59">15:41:59 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>not anti-business, maybe anti-monopoly on the social web :)</dd>
<dt id="T15-41-59-1">15:41:59 [rreck]</dt><dd>harmony</dd>
<dt id="T15-42-09">15:42:09 [mischat]</dt><dd>this section should emphasise that our work is not anti-business </dd>
<dt id="T15-42-17">15:42:17 [mischat]</dt><dd>+1 to harry's suggestion</dd>
<dt id="T15-42-17-1">15:42:17 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>although notes that facebook is using open standards well, see Open Graph Protocol</dd>
<dt id="T15-42-33">15:42:33 [rreck]</dt><dd>i think the largest efforts in the social web are only there with the intention to make money</dd>
<dt id="T15-42-52">15:42:52 [mischat]</dt><dd>gnuSocial should change that rreck </dd>
<dt id="T15-43-02">15:43:02 [rreck]</dt><dd>true</dd>
<dt id="T15-43-20">15:43:20 [rreck]</dt><dd>but the landscape currently is responding </dd>
<dt id="T15-43-46">15:43:46 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>also see all the work around diaspora</dd>
<dt id="T15-43-49">15:43:49 [melvster]</dt><dd>+1 evolving ... very rapidly this year</dd>
<dt id="T15-43-52">15:43:52 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>NYT times article on open social networks</dd>
<dt id="T15-43-57">15:43:57 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>(we picked a good year!)</dd>
<dt id="T15-43-59">15:43:59 [rreck]</dt><dd>zakim, mute me</dd>
<dt id="T15-43-59-1">15:43:59 [Zakim]</dt><dd>rreck should now be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-44-00">15:44:00 [mischat]</dt><dd>we should have a bit of text regarding to what we think the new business models will be, that will support the development of future social networks tools </dd>
<dt id="T15-44-12">15:44:12 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>q+</dd>
<dt id="T15-44-13">15:44:13 [oshani]</dt><dd>oshani has joined #swxg</dd>
<dt id="T15-44-21">15:44:21 [rreck]</dt><dd>create an WG</dd>
<dt id="T15-44-27">15:44:27 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>:)</dd>
<dt id="T15-44-31">15:44:31 [rreck]</dt><dd>+1 hhceo</dd>
<dt id="T15-44-47">15:44:47 [mischat]</dt><dd>is our recommendation to form a social web working group ?</dd>
<dt id="T15-44-48">15:44:48 [rreck]</dt><dd>pros/cons?</dd>
<dt id="T15-45-39">15:45:39 [MacTed]</dt><dd>Zakim, unmute me</dd>
<dt id="T15-45-39-1">15:45:39 [Zakim]</dt><dd>MacTed should no longer be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-46-11">15:46:11 [mischat]</dt><dd>we shouldn't have an open ended social web WG </dd>
<dt id="T15-46-20">15:46:20 [mischat]</dt><dd>is what hhalpin is suggesting </dd>
<dt id="T15-46-29">15:46:29 [mischat]</dt><dd>q+</dd>
<dt id="T15-46-31">15:46:31 [rreck]</dt><dd>-q</dd>
<dt id="T15-46-35">15:46:35 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1 MacTed</dd>
<dt id="T15-46-42">15:46:42 [DKA]</dt><dd>q?</dd>
<dt id="T15-46-45">15:46:45 [DKA]</dt><dd>ack hh</dd>
<dt id="T15-47-04">15:47:04 [mischat]</dt><dd>macted, social web is too big to be standardise </dd>
<dt id="T15-47-16">15:47:16 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>I'm thinking 1) API and formats for personal data interchange</dd>
<dt id="T15-47-34">15:47:34 [mischat]</dt><dd>macted thinks that user interchange is an important topic </dd>
<dt id="T15-47-38">15:47:38 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>2) Privacy and Access Control Language Languages</dd>
<dt id="T15-47-45">15:47:45 [mischat]</dt><dd>3) Data portability </dd>
<dt id="T15-47-53">15:47:53 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>3) Maybe even OpenID v.Next and FOAF+SSL </dd>
<dt id="T15-48-01">15:48:01 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>or make that 4)</dd>
<dt id="T15-48-03">15:48:03 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>:)</dd>
<dt id="T15-48-06">15:48:06 [melvster]</dt><dd>:)</dd>
<dt id="T15-48-18">15:48:18 [rreck]</dt><dd>true</dd>
<dt id="T15-48-18-1">15:48:18 [DKA]</dt><dd>5) APIs</dd>
<dt id="T15-48-20">15:48:20 [mischat]</dt><dd>dka, we should list these topics and they should be set out in the User Cases and the Technology gaps </dd>
<dt id="T15-48-24">15:48:24 [mischat]</dt><dd>and should be in the conclusions </dd>
<dt id="T15-48-42">15:48:42 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>q+</dd>
<dt id="T15-49-04">15:49:04 [mischat]</dt><dd>dka, instead of recommending a WG, we could recommend a list of future activities </dd>
<dt id="T15-49-05">15:49:05 [melvster]</dt><dd>remember also what timbl said, 'APIs are poor, expose your data'</dd>
<dt id="T15-49-09">15:49:09 [DKA]</dt><dd>ack hh</dd>
<dt id="T15-49-13">15:49:13 [DKA]</dt><dd>ack misc</dd>
<dt id="T15-50-28">15:50:28 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>+1 DKA and Mischa's point</dd>
<dt id="T15-51-06">15:51:06 [rreck]</dt><dd>i am in vehement agreement</dd>
<dt id="T15-51-31">15:51:31 [mischat]</dt><dd>zakim, mute me </dd>
<dt id="T15-51-31-1">15:51:31 [Zakim]</dt><dd>mischat should now be muted</dd>
<dt id="T15-51-54">15:51:54 [mischat]</dt><dd>the relationship between xmpp based work, and the social web work </dd>
<dt id="T15-52-05">15:52:05 [mischat]</dt><dd>go timbl <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/0303-socialcloud-tbl/">http://www.w3.org/2010/Talks/0303-socialcloud-tbl/</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-52-30">15:52:30 [mischat]</dt><dd>thanks cperey </dd>
<dt id="T15-52-30-1">15:52:30 [rreck]</dt><dd>sounds good but i dont see that verbage</dd>
<dt id="T15-52-46">15:52:46 [cperey]</dt><dd>at the top</dd>
<dt id="T15-52-57">15:52:57 [cperey]</dt><dd>in the executive summary part</dd>
<dt id="T15-53-00">15:53:00 [mischat]</dt><dd>ah ok </dd>
<dt id="T15-53-08">15:53:08 [cperey]</dt><dd>:-)</dd>
<dt id="T15-53-12">15:53:12 [mischat]</dt><dd>hhalpin: can you repeat </dd>
<dt id="T15-53-13">15:53:13 [mischat]</dt><dd>?</dd>
<dt id="T15-53-27">15:53:27 [mischat]</dt><dd>micropayments ?</dd>
<dt id="T15-53-46">15:53:46 [mischat]</dt><dd>and W3C to allow for more independent members </dd>
<dt id="T15-53-48">15:53:48 [mischat]</dt><dd>?</dd>
<dt id="T15-54-08">15:54:08 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>that's fine.</dd>
<dt id="T15-54-17">15:54:17 [mischat]</dt><dd>micropayments to go into the business related section </dd>
<dt id="T15-54-27">15:54:27 [melvster]</dt><dd>open market place: <a href="http://openetherpad.org/sNh9yF0w9c">http://openetherpad.org/sNh9yF0w9c</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-54-37">15:54:37 [mischat]</dt><dd>regarding future business model </dd>
<dt id="T15-54-54">15:54:54 [rreck]</dt><dd>maybe we need a definition</dd>
<dt id="T15-54-58">15:54:58 [mischat]</dt><dd>MacTed, suggests that we are talking about the Social Internet </dd>
<dt id="T15-55-14">15:55:14 [mischat]</dt><dd>and not the Social Web, as we are talking about lots of technologies which aren't "web"</dd>
<dt id="T15-55-21">15:55:21 [rreck]</dt><dd>web in the layman's sense</dd>
<dt id="T15-55-21-1">15:55:21 [mischat]</dt><dd>+1 rreck </dd>
<dt id="T15-55-40">15:55:40 [mischat]</dt><dd>+1 we need a definition </dd>
<dt id="T15-55-55">15:55:55 [mischat]</dt><dd>+1 MacTed </dd>
<dt id="T15-56-13">15:56:13 [mischat]</dt><dd>are you talking about the xmpp technology stack MacTed ?</dd>
<dt id="T15-56-14">15:56:14 [rreck]</dt><dd>yes i agree he is correct</dd>
<dt id="T15-56-51">15:56:51 [mischat]</dt><dd>HAHA</dd>
<dt id="T15-57-04">15:57:04 [rreck]</dt><dd>thanks for your efforts cperey</dd>
<dt id="T15-57-34">15:57:34 [mischat]</dt><dd>dka suggests that the audience should go beyond our normal W3C audience </dd>
<dt id="T15-57-41">15:57:41 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>maybe we can feed some of the bits of the report into this wiki page</dd>
<dt id="T15-57-46">15:57:46 [mischat]</dt><dd>and it should reach out to people interested in the "social internet" </dd>
<dt id="T15-57-46-1">15:57:46 [rreck]</dt><dd>can we just hang out here"?</dd>
<dt id="T15-57-55">15:57:55 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>yes rreck, you can.</dd>
<dt id="T15-58-28">15:58:28 [rreck]</dt><dd>is there a document coordinator?</dd>
<dt id="T15-58-31">15:58:31 [mischat]</dt><dd>hhalpin, suggests we give cperey and DKA a couple of weeks to mull over this document </dd>
<dt id="T15-58-40">15:58:40 [mischat]</dt><dd>good question rreck </dd>
<dt id="T15-59-02">15:59:02 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>I could make a W3C Report Wiki-page, have done this already</dd>
<dt id="T15-59-28">15:59:28 [hhalpin]</dt><dd><a href="http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport</a></dd>
<dt id="T15-59-57">15:59:57 [mischat]</dt><dd>i would like to help write the privacy/facebook madness bit, leading into the motivation for a decentralised social network </dd>
<dt id="T15-59-58">15:59:58 [mischat]</dt><dd>:)</dd>
<dt id="T16-00-05">16:00:05 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>?</dd>
<dt id="T16-00-09">16:00:09 [rreck]</dt><dd>me neither</dd>
<dt id="T16-00-15">16:00:15 [mischat]</dt><dd>ah</dd>
<dt id="T16-00-20">16:00:20 [mischat]</dt><dd>there is a wiki page above </dd>
<dt id="T16-00-27">16:00:27 [mischat]</dt><dd><a href="http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/FinalReport</a></dd>
<dt id="T16-00-42">16:00:42 [mischat]</dt><dd>we could put the headings into the w3c styled wiki page</dd>
<dt id="T16-00-51">16:00:51 [rreck]</dt><dd>i hate wikis</dd>
<dt id="T16-00-57">16:00:57 [mischat]</dt><dd>so we could have 2 wiki pages, 1 which is a draft </dd>
<dt id="T16-01-01">16:01:01 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>sorry ron, but its better than shipping WORD docs around</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-02">16:01:02 [rreck]</dt><dd>hate is too strong</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-03">16:01:03 [mischat]</dt><dd>and 1 which is what we are agreed on</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-17">16:01:17 [rreck]</dt><dd>bubye y'all</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-19">16:01:19 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>OK,let's adjourn call</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-21">16:01:21 [mischat]</dt><dd>bye bye all </dd>
<dt id="T16-01-24">16:01:24 [hhalpin]</dt><dd>trackbot, end meeting</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-24-1">16:01:24 [trackbot]</dt><dd>Zakim, list attendees</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-24-2">16:01:24 [Zakim]</dt><dd>As of this point the attendees have been cperey, MacTed, hhalpin, mischat, rreck, melvster, +95177aabb, pchampin, DKA</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-24-3">16:01:24 [rreck]</dt><dd>+1 adjoun</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-25">16:01:25 [trackbot]</dt><dd>RRSAgent, please draft minutes</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-25-1">16:01:25 [RRSAgent]</dt><dd>I have made the request to generate <a href="http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-swxg-minutes.html</a> trackbot</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-26">16:01:26 [trackbot]</dt><dd>RRSAgent, bye</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-26-1">16:01:26 [RRSAgent]</dt><dd>I see no action items</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-26-2">16:01:26 [Zakim]</dt><dd>-cperey</dd>
<dt id="T16-01-27">16:01:27 [DKA]</dt><dd>bye all</dd>
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