20-mediafrag-minutes.html
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 20 May
2009</title>
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>20 May 2009</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0029.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad,
gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc,
+081806143aadd</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Erik</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Raphael</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>mhausenblas</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">ADMIN</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">UC & REQUIREMENTS</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">SPECIFICATION</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">TEST CASES (Michael)</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">ISSUES</a></li>
<li><a href="#item06">IMPLEMENTATION</a></li>
<li><a href="#item07">AOB</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 20 May
2009</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Previous:</cite> 2009-05-13 <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-irc</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribenick:
mhausenblas</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> heh</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> on my way</p>
<h3 id="item01">ADMIN</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> PROPOSED to accept the
minutes of the 13 May 2009 telecon:</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/13-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Gui</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> minutes approved</p>
<p class='phone'>ACTION-66</p>
<p class='phone'>ACTION-66?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-66 -- Jack
Jansen to look at the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in
Amsterdam on September 17-18 (just after IBC) -- due 2009-04-23
-- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/66">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/66</a></p>
<p class='phone'>close ACTION-66</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-66 Look at
the organisation of the 4th F2F meeting in Amsterdam on
September 17-18 (just after IBC) closed</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> what shall we do
jackjansen?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> not so much in a
hurry. after IBC things here in A'dam are normal again<br />
... that is we can wait a bit</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> so we can wait till end
of June</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> silvia, we didn't
pick the slot due to IBC in the first place<br />
... but we wanted to have somethin in 09/2009<br />
... other question. is any other place/time doable for the
Aussies/SAfricans?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> alternative proposal was
SAMT09, Graz, Austria</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> not sure if it makes
sense to rehash that topic</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> we will ensure to have
more virtual meetings as well<br />
... the September meeting is still an option<br />
... will be decided by end of June</p>
<h3 id="item02">UC & REQUIREMENTS</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> no progress so far, will
be done ASAP</p>
<h3 id="item03">SPECIFICATION</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_HTTP_Communication#Conrad.27s_proposal">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/UA_Server_HTTP_Communication#Conrad.27s_proposal</a></p>
<p class='phone'>UA Server HTTP Communication
(Conrad/Raphael)</p>
<p class='phone'>conrad explains his proposal</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> question regarding
Accept-Range-Refer is similar to the original proposal?<br />
... how is the conversion between sec and bytes done</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> bah</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> My first
observation: Accept-Range-Refer ~= Accept-Ranges AND
Range-refer ~= Range HTTP headers</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> same here</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Gui</cite>> what I remember from
Conrad proposal is : 1. clarification on the order of fallback
mechanisms and 2. more verbose HTTP headers</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> 1. question is sec to
bytes conversion</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> Server is authoritative
re conversion</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> we should have a
comparison of the three proposals on the table<br />
... and having Yves on board would certainly help</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> now we should focus on
the # solution, move ? to the bottom</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> I think we should
keep the two as it might help establishing backwards
compatibility, right conrad?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> correct</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> ok, but we still need an
overview table comparing the proposals<br />
... I also miss the number of roundtrips<br />
... seems always one, no?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>conrad:</cite> no, there are further
requests</p>
<p class='phone'>ACTION-63?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-63 --
Conrad Parker to update the Wiki with his more general approach
with precisely the same examples -- due 2009-04-23 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/63">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/63</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> please give also a
rational for it, esp. re the use cases you have in
mind</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to provide some rational and
use cases for his proposal [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-80
- Provide some rationalee and use cases for his proposal [on
Conrad Parker - due 2009-05-27].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> s/ups/oops</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> :-)</p>
<p class='phone'>UA MF Resolution and Processing: (Michael)</p>
<p class='phone'>work continues</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> so we continue to
discuss via email</p>
<h3 id="item04">TEST CASES (Michael)</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> we started to go through
the TC last week</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCases</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jackjansen</cite>> url?</p>
<p class='phone'>ACTION-79?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-79 --
Michael Hausenblas to summarise the options for 4xx status code
for empty TC0002-0007 in a Wiki page -- due 2009-05-20 --
OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/79">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/79</a></p>
<p class='phone'>close ACTION-79</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-79
Summarise the options for 4xx status code for empty TC0002-0007
in a Wiki page closed</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> see <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesDiscussion">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/TestCasesDiscussion</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>PROPOSAL:</cite> In case an 'empty
response' (such as found in TC0002-0006) occurs, the origin
server MUST send an HTTP 416 status code if and only if the
fragment range was given in an HTTP Range request header,
otherwise a HTTP 406 status code MUST be send.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> beside not knowing of
other usages of 416/406 ...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> has it already been
decided to be 4xx??</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> :)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> why not using
204?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> I think range 20-10 is
the same error as 0-0 if we specify that the start has to be
smaller than the end</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Discussion about
what *is* an empty fragment?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> 204: a valid
fragment but no content</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> 4xx: an error,
because the UA has nothing to present</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> yeah :-(</p><a name=
"action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to update the TC discussion
page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion on the list
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-81
- Update the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask
Yves's opinion on the list [on Michael Hausenblas - due
2009-05-27].</p>
<h3 id="item05">ISSUES</h3>
<p class='phone'>ISSUE-3?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ISSUE-3 -- Does
our MF URI syntax imply that we need to update MIME Type
registrations? -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3</a></p>
<p class='phone'>ISSUE-4 ?</p>
<p class='phone'>ISSUE-4?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ACTION-73?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-73 --
Conrad Parker to change the phrasing of the issue 4 (just
audio/video)? -- due 2009-04-24 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/73">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/73</a></p>
<p class='phone'>conrad, re issue no. 4?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> ok</p>
<p class='phone'>ISSUE-9?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ISSUE-9 -- Should
we have the media type inside the Test Cases? -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/9</a></p><a name="action03"
id="action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to flesh out TC vocabulary re
ISSUE-9 [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-82
- Flesh out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [on Michael Hausenblas -
due 2009-05-27].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> issue-4: so i think
we discussed not predefining lots of track names, but perhaps
predefining "audio" and "video" only: in which case action 73
would be to change issue 4 to "Should we predefine track names
for audio and video"</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ISSUE-4 Should we
pre-define some track names? notes added</p>
<h3 id="item06">IMPLEMENTATION</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> to push implementations
we need the proposals a bit better discussed<br />
... all actions here continue</p>
<h3 id="item07">AOB</h3>
<p class='phone'>[adjourned]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Gui</cite>> thanks, bye</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> thanks all</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>silvia:</cite> good idea</p>
<p class='phone'>just send an email to the list with subject
[MF-TC] or so proposing it</p>
<p class='phone'>I'll add it to the Wiki then, ok?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> cool</p>
<p class='phone'>ta</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Conrad to provide
some rational and use cases for his proposal [recorded in
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">
http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to flesh
out TC vocabulary re ISSUE-9 [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Michael to update
the TC discussion page with 204 proposal and ask Yves's opinion
on the list [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
<address>
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2009/05/20 12:51:02 $
</address>
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<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/feedback/fallback/
Succeeded: s/rational/rationale/
Succeeded: s/rational/rationale/
FAILED: s/ups/oops/
Succeeded: s/decided/decided to be 4xx?/
Found ScribeNick: mhausenblas
Inferring Scribes: mhausenblas
Default Present: raphael, mhausenblas, +0329331aaaa, davy, silvia, conrad, gui, +20592aabb, jackjansen, +1.818.061.aacc, +081806143aadd
Present: raphael mhausenblas +0329331aaaa davy silvia conrad gui +20592aabb jackjansen +1.818.061.aacc +081806143aadd
Regrets: Erik
Agenda: <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0029.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009May/0029.html</a>
Found Date: 20 May 2009
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/20-mediafrag-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: conrad michael
</pre>[End of <a href=
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scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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