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  <title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 26 May
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  <p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
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  <h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>26 May 2010</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0074.html'>
  Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>Michael, Erik, Raphael, Davy, Silvia, (irc)</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Silvia</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>Erik, Raphael</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>raphael</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">1. Admin</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">2. Specification</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">3. Test Cases</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">4. AOB ?</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'></p>

    <p class='phone'></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 26 May
    2010</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; Scribe: raphael</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt; Scribenick:
    raphael</p>

    <h3 id="item01">1. Admin</h3>

    <p class='phone'>PROPOSED to accept the short minutes of the 19
    May 2010 telecon</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>erik</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>Minutes accepted</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-162?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-162 --
    Raphaël Troncy to provide practical information for the next
    F2F -- due 2010-05-19 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/162">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/162</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-162</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-162 Provide
    practical information for the next F2F closed</p>

    <p class='phone'>More details: <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/SixthF2FAgenda">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/SixthF2FAgenda</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I think Yves will be
    able to carry the 4-5 people to the meeting from the hotel
    since he is living close by<br />
    ... I think we should propose a talk to the Open Video
    Conference</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>erik</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> what about proposing a duo
    presentation, Raphael and Davy, similar to WWW, but more
    complete</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> we can work out the
    abstract starting from the WWW one on the mailing list<br />
    ... I think we should go for the 30-45' talk</p><a name=
    "action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael to send on the mailing list
    the abstract for a talk proposal [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - Raphael</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to send on the mailing list the
    abstract for a talk proposal [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-165
    - Send on the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal [on
    Raphaël Troncy - due 2010-06-02].</p>

    <h3 id="item02">2. Specification</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> still a lot of action to
    Yves, we cannot talk about still</p>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-123?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-123 --
    Silvia Pfeiffer to come up with ABNF for header syntax -- due
    2009-12-09 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/123">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/123</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-123</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-123 Come up
    with ABNF for header syntax closed</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Frank Denoual has
    commented on Silvia's work and Silvia has addressed the
    comments<br />
    ... I'm all for giving an action to Yves for reviewing the
    ABNF</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>erik</cite>&gt; +1</p><a name=
    "action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> yves to review the ABNF syntax of the
    HTTP headers introduced by the Media Fragment URI spec
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-166
    - Review the ABNF syntax of the HTTP headers introduced by the
    Media Fragment URI spec [on Yves Lafon - due 2010-06-02].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> rendering of fragment in
    UA ... how far should we go</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> we should discuss
    possibilities, but not provide recommendations</p>

    <h3 id="item03">3. Test Cases</h3>

    <p class='phone'>ACTION-164?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-164 -- Erik
    Mannens to report to the group whether such an approach from
    RDFa test suite can be used for automatically testing the media
    fragment specification -- due 2010-05-26 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/164">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/164</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>See also: <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0067.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0067.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-164</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-164 Report
    to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can
    be used for automatically testing the media fragment
    specification closed</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> ok with the extension,
    but my problem is that we do not rely only on the HTTP status
    code<br />
    ... there is also the need for a user assessment that the
    visual rendering is correct</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> really? if we do not
    recommend the rendering of a fragment, then no need ... for the
    automatic test suite<br />
    ... and there are 2 kind of evaluations, server side and UA
    side<br />
    ... for me there is test suite for the UA (correct parsing of
    the media fragment URI syntax + correct rendering of the
    fragment?) and the test suite for the server (the automatic
    test suite from Davy we are talking about)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> we have done our own
    implementation, JSON files, no DB, but we would like to link it
    to corrib now</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> is there some pointers I
    can have a look to to better understand what you have done</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> can we say that
    mftc:expectedHTTPStatusCode<br />
    ... returns a 2xx ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p2-semantics-08#section-8.2.1">
    http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p2-semantics-08#section-8.2.1</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> for a 206 or a 200</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-10.2.1">http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-10.2.1</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I like this ontology:
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/http-statusCodes">http://www.w3.org/2008/http-statusCodes</a><br />

    ... My other concern is do we want a litteral for the property
    mftc:expectedVisualResults ?<br />
    ... or do we want controlled values ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/HTTP-in-RDF10/">http://www.w3.org/TR/HTTP-in-RDF10/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> do we really need this
    property if we test the server?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> no automatic evaluation for
    this one, not trivial<br />
    ... we actually test more than the HTTP headers, for example
    that the bytes sent in the body of the response correspond to
    the original bytes in the media</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> I would suggest to
    remove this property if we don't see how it will be used</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I'm thinking of using
    corrib for testing also the UA side<br />
    ... so I might need it later on<br />
    ... then we need to think now about the test framework for the
    UA side!<br />
    ... because we will NOT edit again and again the test suite</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> I agree with you</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> how we should proceed
    then ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> should we have test movies
    ? How many ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> we can use the one
    Silvia is using (the cartoon, need to find the title) used by
    Mozilla demos<br />
    ... we don't need many, perhaps 5 in different formats, would
    be good</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; Elephant Dreams</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Silvia, if you're
    reading, could we give you an ACTION to find 4-5 movies,
    licence free, we could use in our test cases ?<br />
    ... Elephant Dreams is one of them<br />
    ... what else ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; very hard indeed</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; I go to creative
    commons and download from there</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mhausenblas</cite>&gt; Michael:
    Server-Test Suite would consist of: corrib-output (RDF):
    manifest, media files, driver (takes manifest and applies to
    each set of media files and generates EARL)</p><a name=
    "action04" id="action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Erik to find licence free movies for
    the automatic test suite ... starting with Elephant Dreams and
    the creative commons [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-167
    - Find licence free movies for the automatic test suite ...
    starting with Elephant Dreams and the creative commons [on Erik
    Mannens - due 2010-06-02].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://creativecommons.org/videos">http://creativecommons.org/videos</a></p><a name="action05"
    id="action05"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Davy to investigate how the automatic
    test suite could also be done for evaluating the UA behavior
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-168
    - Investigate how the automatic test suite could also be done
    for evaluating the UA behavior [on Davy Van Deursen - due
    2010-06-02].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>silvia</cite>&gt; just get videos from
    there</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> we are waiting for the
    output of this action before asking Michael to extend
    corrib</p>

    <h3 id="item04">4. AOB ?</h3>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-164</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-164 Report
    to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can
    be used for automatically testing the media fragment
    specification closed</p>

    <p class='phone'>[meeting adjourned]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I hope we will have Yves
    and Jack on the phone next week to progress further !</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Davy to
  investigate how the automatic test suite could also be done for
  evaluating the UA behavior [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Erik to find
  licence free movies for the automatic test suite ... starting
  with Elephant Dreams and the creative commons [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael to send
  on the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to send on
  the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> yves to review
  the ABNF syntax of the HTTP headers introduced by the Media
  Fragment URI spec [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
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