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  <h1>- DRAFT -</h1>

  <h1>MMSEM XG First Face to face meeting in Amsterdam</h1>

  <h2>10 Jul 2006</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html'>
  Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-irc">IRC
  log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>Jeff_Pan, meeting_room, Vassilis, Chalaschek, JeffP</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>raphael</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>jacco2, Giovanni</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">W3C process 101</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">1. Charter Overview /
        Objectives</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">MMSEM Background and
        Demonstrations</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">Discussion of "Image annotation on
        the Semantic Web" note:
        http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item05">Discussion of "Semantic Web Image
        Annotation Interoperability"</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; this will be mmsem
    First F2F</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; what conference is
    this?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Scribe: jacco2</p>

    <p class='phone'>people on IRC: you can connect by phone
    too!</p>

    <p class='phone'>See phone number in the agenda</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pasquale</cite>&gt; sorry, for now i
    can only irc</p>

    <p class='phone'>Chair opens the meeting and welcomes all
    participants</p>

    <p class='phone'>start with role call</p>

    <p class='phone'>Yioannis, athens, greece</p>

    <p class='phone'>, feature extraction</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; I cannot hear very
    good</p>

    <p class='phone'>Vassilis, ITI, Greece, research interest
    SemWeb technologies and mm annotation</p>

    <p class='phone'>Giovanni, DBin project, DBin is p2p metadata
    exchange</p>

    <p class='phone'>Christian, PhD student, also from Ancona</p>

    <p class='phone'>Thomas, Koblenz, also in k-space and aceMedia
    - mediator role</p>

    <p class='phone'>thierry, DFKI, aslo in k-space. Member of ISO
    group on language resources</p>

    <p class='phone'>George, CWI, PhD student, also in k-space</p>

    <p class='phone'>Lynda, CWI, k-space</p>

    <p class='phone'>Jacco, CWI, Semantic Media Interfaces</p>

    <p class='phone'>Jeff Pan, chair of XG, semantic web languages,
    reasoning</p>

    <p class='phone'>Officially, we now have 21 members</p>

    <p class='phone'>Vassilis of NTUA is AC Rep for k-space
    members</p>

    <p class='phone'>Giovanni, membership is pending via Italian
    W3C office</p>

    <p class='phone'>We also have Susanne Boll as an invited
    expert</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; hi Vassilis, do you
    plan to join on the phone ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>VassilisTzouv</cite>&gt; Hello all</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; Hi Vassilis</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>VassilisTzouv</cite>&gt; Yes I will
    join on the phone</p>

    <p class='phone'>Vassilis and Yiannis connect by phone &amp;
    IRC, have send slides which will be presented later</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Chair introduces W3C
    processes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Explains about zakim
    and RRSagent: all members, please lookup the short explanations
    on the W3C website</p>

    <h3 id="item01">W3C process 101</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; each member will be
    asked to scribe</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; we will have
    bi-weekly teleconf, which will be announced on the web page and
    mailing list</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; public minutes will
    be published</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/1130-sb-w3c-ac-mangrpt/Overview.html#(15)">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/1130-sb-w3c-ac-mangrpt/Overview.html#(15)</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Chair explains goal
    of the W3C incubators.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Incubator Activity:
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/1130-sb-w3c-ac-mangrpt/Overview.html#(15)">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Talks/1130-sb-w3c-ac-mangrpt/Overview.html#(15)</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael shows slides
    of Steve</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Important: XGs are
    light-weight, and will finish within one year</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Goal is to publish
    technical report with advice to W3C about potential
    Recommendation track followup</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; We are the second XG
    within W3C</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff: xg is new way
    to prepare a new activity, with much better infrastructure as
    before</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff: OWL was based
    on member submission on DAML+OIL, but it took still 2 years to
    get the OWL REC out, which is not that much difference</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; With the XG we have a
    better infrastructure to do the ground work of the
    preparation</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; So later during this
    F2F we should discuss if we want to try to setup a Working
    Group</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; ... after the charter
    of the XG ends</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: the Content
    Labeling XG was the first XG, labeling content for parental
    guidance etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; We plan to work
    closely with this XG, invite all members to follow the work of
    this XG</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; This XG is the second
    XG, last week the 3rd XG started on "GEO", geo-tagging etc</p>

    <h3 id="item02">1. Charter Overview / Objectives</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael shows
    charter</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Explain history of
    the MM taskforce of the SWBPD group</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Goal 1 of this XG:
    show how semweb can be used to achieve mm metadata
    interoperability</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Non-goal: create new
    MM metadata standards</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Goal 2: show added
    value of formal semantics by describing practical applications
    and examples</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Goal 3: provide best
    practices based on the above</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Open questions: the
    modalities do we address, what standards, etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Intro of Massimo: I'm
    from CNR Pisa, multimedia understanding, Semantic Web and
    XML-based languages</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Yioannis:W3C lives
    too much in its own world, need to talk to other bodies more.
    In addition, related standards like mpeg-7 have not yet
    finished. So we need to communicate to these bodies</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; So how will this
    happen?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: I agree,
    best way is to have representatives from these other bodies in
    this XG as a member or invited expert</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; But I do not know who
    could best represent the MPEG-7 community</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Yioannis: we could
    recommend a view names</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Yionannis: I think
    interoperability is the key issue, we would focus on automatic
    annotation</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; Can people say their
    names before they speak please?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis (ITI): I
    agree with previous speaker. Not only focus on the RDF-level,
    also OWL, Rules or extensions.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Modalities: we could
    start with images and then try to extend later</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff: agrees with
    Vassilis</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; Jeff: ... and OWL and
    rules are also considered in the charter explicitly</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: MMTF of the
    SWBPD only did images, maybe do this again is not a good
    idea</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: Wants to
    stress the importance of real use cases, not focus on theory
    &amp; formalisation side</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: I've tried
    the music-oriented sites, often felt lost. We could find good
    use cases in this area. Content-based identification is
    important, once we have a URI there is a lot we can do</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; What do we identify?
    Melody, wave signal, midi or mp3 file, etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: what is CDDB
    using? Giovanni: its based on a fingerprint of the recording,
    not very robust on for example other versions of the same track
    on a different album etc</p><a name="action01" id=
    "action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Giovanni to coordinate write up of a
    use case on music [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Christian: Agree with
    Giovanni, real use case in a distributed may also need to
    address right management</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: not
    everybody want all metadatato be open and free</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: Does the
    group care about rights management?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Yionnis: addressing
    MPEG-21 is also part of the interoperability issue. Doing music
    means we expand from images to audio?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thomas: different use
    cases with different modalities</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; SemWeb could be a
    good opportunity to also show high-level metadata intergrating
    multiple modalities.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; For example, using
    flickr annotations and than connecting it using semweb
    technology could be a good basis for a use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Flickr is a good
    example to show how easy things can be</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thomas: our group is
    interested in combining modalities, like image + audio</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thierry: I'm not a
    specialist on multimedia. Analysis of lyrics or speach
    transcripts could be used for this use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thierry: we could
    also look at other projects for good use cases</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; A use case from, for
    example, the MESH project, could be on news.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: MUSCLE is
    working on music use cases</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; AXMEDIS is a big
    player in this</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Massimo, could you
    say something on MUSCLE</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>giovannit</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.axmedis.org/">http://www.axmedis.org/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; within the MPEG-7
    standard actually using the description schemes is really
    difficult</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> thierry to write up limitations of
    MPEG-7 description schemes [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; George: also wants to
    focus on real use cases, like the tagging example mentioned by
    Thomas</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; in MUSCLE we are
    developing an infrastructure to manage multimedia metadata
    (images, audio, video). We started using the MPEG-7
    standard.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; shall we have a use
    case for tagging?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Massimo, do you
    have concrete use cases written in MUSCLE ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; About MUSIC ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; george: blogging
    could be another use case, with different modalities</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; I think we should
    remember the use cases of the Semantic Web: eg: catalogs of
    personal photos,</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; systems able to
    recognize persons' faces</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; george: DRM: I can
    see the concern, but it is a hard issue that will not be solved
    by this group</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; and then a thing we
    haven't still seen that is about processed needed to obtain
    multimedia objects</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; giovannni: need to
    align social/human tagging with formal/machine tagging</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: was a
    workshop on this topic at WWW conference, this community starts
    to pick this up.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>lynda</cite>&gt; jacco: images too
    limited, so include other modalities</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>lynda</cite>&gt; bridge gap between
    formal ontologies and tagging</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; about music
    thinking of the semweb use case the personal catalog and the
    catalog of groups (sorry i can't hear i don't want to break who
    is talking)</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> george to write up a use case around
    tagging [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; raphael: summary:
    focus on practical use cases like music combined with lyrics
    analysis and lower level feature extraction, use case on social
    tagging and semantic web</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Yioannis: our
    features are not limited to the ones defined by MPEG-7</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: when you
    use additional features, there is no incentive to go through
    all the pain of a standardized serialization, becuase there is
    no aother tool which can read it anyway</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: this is
    related to the fact that MPEG-7 semantics is described in
    informal English only, not machine readable version.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; SemWeb approach could
    help here</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>giovannit</cite>&gt; jacco: well not
    really english only , there is structuring among the
    decriptors, but the meaning of each one is then in english</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Yioannis:mpeg-7 is
    discussing support transformation matrices to transform
    labels</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Nikolaos_Simou is
    Vassilis</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vasilis: want to
    raise the question if we are interested in ontologicalization
    of low level features?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>VassilisTzouv</cite>&gt;
    Nikolaos_Simou is Vassilis</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: for what do
    you need a semantic interpretation of the low level
    descriptors?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; yioannis: we need
    both numeric and symbolic features in various
    levels</p><a name="action04" id="action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yioanis to write up use case showing
    the need for semantic interpretation of low level features
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; yioannis: in the
    "fused" model all modalities are used to improve the automatic
    annotation</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael to write up use case in the
    news domain [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; IPTC standardizes
    NewsML, now doing version 2 of NewsML</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; CWI works with IPTC
    in the context of K-Space</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; NewsML will likely be
    in the spirit of RDF, but based on an XML syntax</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; A representative of
    IPTC is expected to join the XG in the near future</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: there are
    different sources of metadata: from the camera, from the
    photographer's (manual) annotation tool, news agency will add
    more metadata, etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; (trying not to
    break the conversation..) i think we have to remember two more
    things about use cases: (1) the "Image annotation on the
    Semantic Web" note (<a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation_galway.html)">http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation_galway.html)</a>,
    Jacco is one of the editors and (2) Algorithms (processed) to
    obtain multimedia objects</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; URL of last version
    of the note is at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html">
    http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; (...processeS
    /)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: we could
    think about form interfaces generated by local event
    ontologies</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; massimo, what do you
    mean with 'obtain multimedia objects'? Object tracking &amp;
    recognition?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; i think there could
    be systems able to reconstruct multimedia objects</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: should we
    provide some demo web service for mm annotation?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; a set of steps to
    re-obtain an object</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni:, yes, if we
    can pinpoint to a basic feature like identification, that
    crosses all use cases</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; thinking of images
    for example if an image is obtained after having applied some
    algorithms then we can repeat the same steps to do it again</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Maybe there will be
    an XG on identification as a followup of the Workshop at
    WWW2006 on this topic</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: Repeats
    things said by Massimo on IRC.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Notes that the "Image
    annotation on the Semantic Web" will be discussed by Jacco in
    the afternoon</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vasilis: I think
    massimo refers to the process of analyzing the content
    automatically</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; to analyze and to
    reproduce the content</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; For example: To
    recognize this feature, you should apply this process</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Massimo, can you
    explain about "reproduce the content"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Is this a topic in
    Muscle?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; yes in Muscle and
    in the ace Media</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; (the call for a
    common multimedia ontology(</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thierry: Raphael,
    what is the role of low level features in your NewsML
    scenario?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: Currently
    none...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Massimo, could you
    write up something about the need for being able to reproducing
    the content? Could I give you an action point?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; ok, i'm writing it
    give me some minutes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; there is no need to
    hurry :-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; :-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; Massimo, for the
    record, could you send to the public list please?</p><a name=
    "action06" id="action06"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Massimo to write up use case on
    analysis and reproducing content [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; ok</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; thanks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: Mentioned
    that this XG will focus on metadata interoperability, where
    k-space is doing work on combining low level features</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: are we
    considering cross modality interoperability?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: yes, we
    discussed this in the beginning of the meeting</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: I'm not
    sure this is in scope for the 1st deliverable?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: We have not
    decided about what documents and deliverables we will
    produce</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: if it still
    on the metadata level, it is ok</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: summary of
    morning session: people have shown interest on practical use
    cases on different modalities and domains, 6 action points to
    write up use cases</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: use cases
    will also look at the way RDF, OWL, rules etc will be used to
    solve the use case problem</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Now first lunch,
    after lunch we well have time for some demonstrations, after
    coffee break more discussion about the deliverables of the
    XG</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Lunch break!</p>

    <h3 id="item03">MMSEM Background and Demonstrations</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ??P0 is
    meeting_room</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>giovannit</cite>&gt; jeff: fine with
    me to start again</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; scribe: Giovanni</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>giovannit</cite>&gt; (practicing the
    scribing..)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; scribenick:
    giovannit</p>

    <p class='phone'>i'll attempt my best (-:</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> 10 minute per person
    presentation</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; Are the slides
    available online?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff, we will make
    the slides available asap</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; thanks!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Jacco show demo at
    <a href=
    "http://e-culture.multimedian.nl/demo/search">http://e-culture.multimedian.nl/demo/search</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>ecoluter applications: converted metadata of a
    few museums into rdf and seen how far we get without doing
    heavy weight alignment</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; All the slides
    shwon will be at: <a href=
    "http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/">http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/BOEMIE_MMSEM_100706.ppt">
    http://homepages.cwi.nl/~troncy/tmp/W3C/BOEMIE_MMSEM_100706.ppt</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>jaccos'd demo shows a full text search which
    works recursively on the rdf graph</p>

    <p class='phone'>basically resources are collected starting
    from those which have a literal attached matching the query, a
    number of euristics and settings enable meaningful rating and
    limiting of the end result</p>

    <p class='phone'>the whole structure works also fine when
    generic dataset is loaded, providing an ontology based
    navigations of the instances and visualization of related
    metadata. Cool ajax makes it apparently very responsive</p>

    <p class='phone'>the work is powered by swi prolog. Jacco says
    they tried doing this in sparql but the expressivity is really
    not sufficient for the needs of the algorithms used here.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Ioannis presenting now</p>

    <p class='phone'>presentation introduces ellogon <a href=
    "http://www.ellogon.org">http://www.ellogon.org</a> a general
    purpose language engineering platform</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>CIL:</cite> a computational intelligence
    laboratory, applications are shown in the area of OCR , shape
    based retrieval, human tracking</p>

    <p class='phone'>violence detection</p>

    <p class='phone'>now presenting the BOEMIE project</p>

    <p class='phone'>low level methodologies are improoving but
    high level annotation extraction is still difficult, the use of
    ontologies to drive the information extraction process seem
    very interesting</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; BOEMIE is, and other
    slides will be, published at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Among the aspects involved in this project are
    semantically annotated maps, evolving ontologies and fusion of
    different aspects of multimedia metadata</p>

    <p class='phone'>a use case/query is presented merging all the
    aspects covered by the project.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> there are other EU
    proejcts which have similar goals ,what ar ethe
    differences?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>ioannis:</cite> BOEMIE is concerned with
    multimodal metadata , to the best of my knowledge there is not
    much overlap with the other projects</p>

    <p class='phone'>question: at which level is the fusion
    actually going to happen</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>ioannis:</cite> the fusion is going to
    be supported by reasoning. Mid level concepts will be
    constructed and reasoning mechanism will take the decisions
    about the high level concepts<br />
    ... another novel concept is that the semantic extraction is
    knowledge driven, using an ontology</p>

    <p class='phone'>vassilis presenting</p>

    <p class='phone'>toward a common multimedia ontology framework:
    initiative started a few months ago , a framework for
    collecting existing metadata knowledge reppresentation , an
    approach for harmonization..</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.acemedia.org/aceMedia/reference/Multimedia_ontology/index.html">
    http://www.acemedia.org/aceMedia/reference/Multimedia_ontology/index.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>In the first phase of this initiative, a
    number of requirements were collected</p>

    <p class='phone'>reasoning support needs rules and DL based
    methoodologies but also uncertainty and fuzzyness</p>

    <p class='phone'>modularization is agreed to be an important
    feature. Smaller ontologies which are reusable, specific and
    interoperable</p>

    <p class='phone'>there is the need of a upper ontology
    "merging" or "harmonization". In general some practical way for
    interoperability since people are using different ones.</p>

    <p class='phone'>a semi automatic image annotation tool is
    shown. Automatic image segmentation helps a human operator to
    associate ontology labels (shown as a tree)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; about the possible
    use case on algorithms..</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; Currently we have
    sets of tools to extract features from multimedia objects:</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; a set of rules can
    be defined able to establish which tools could be</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; combined and how
    (e.g. put in a pipeline).</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; Considering for
    example image understanding problems (e.g. segmentation,</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; analysis, ...),</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; a thesaurus
    containing related concepts and algorithm could be thought
    of.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; It would important
    to represent features on how metadata could be</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; extracted so that
    it could be used at a higher level</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; for images and
    multimedia information handling in general.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; Another important
    feature would be to take trace of how a specific</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; result has been
    obtained starting from a particular input.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; A specific case of
    image elaboration:</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; it is necessary to
    apply to the image a series of algorithms to</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; calculate a
    property (region shapes, color distribution)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; The chain of
    algorithms defines a procedure that resolve the given
    problem.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; It would be
    interesting to 'store' the procedure - as an ordered set of</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; algorithms - to add
    'knowledge'</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; to a system for
    interpretation and analysis.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; Once stored this
    procedure the knowledge increases and another problem</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; could be resolved
    applying the procedures already inserted.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; Finally, this
    knowledge could be codified using an ontology that merges</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; procedures and
    problems.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: what about
    a formal cooperation between this XG and the requirements work
    started by aceMedia</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: yes, we
    will. Yiannis will become a member.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis of NTUA
    presenting slides at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/IVML.profile.2006.06.ppt">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/IVML.profile.2006.06.ppt</a>
    via the telephone</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Yannis presenting
    slides at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/IVML.background.2006.06.ppt">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/IVML.background.2006.06.ppt</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Yannis speaking (NTUA) analisys of image and
    video content for automatic annotaion. A tool is shown for
    automatic segmentation, and manual region merging</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; me: hi Chris</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>VassilisTzouv</cite>&gt; Hi chris</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chalaschek</cite>&gt; Hi guys...time
    difference is quite difficult for me :(</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; Hi Chris</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; hi Chris, welcome
    and thx for joining</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>VassilisTzouv</cite>&gt; what time is
    now in maryland?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chalaschek</cite>&gt; 9:45am</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chalaschek</cite>&gt; Are you guys on
    break now?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Show coffee break,
    start again in 5 minutes with Thomas presentation and DBin</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Thomas presenting
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/iswebAtMMSEM.pdf">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/mmsem/meetings/f2f-amsterdam/iswebAtMMSEM.pdf</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; giovanni presenting
    slides, will put online later</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt; ok</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; slides are on
    distributed man/macine cooperative mm annotation</p>

    <h3 id="item04">Discussion of "Image annotation on the Semantic
    Web" note: <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html">
    http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/MM/image_annotation.html</a></h3>

    <p class='phone'>jacco gives an over view of the semantic web
    best practices and deployment working group</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/">http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/BestPractices/</a></p><a name="action07"
    id="action07"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> ALL give comments on the "Image
    annotation on the Semantic Web" Working Draft [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; The deadline for
    the comments are 24/07/2006 !</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; schedule: finish
    this draft and get it published as a Working Group Note by
    SWBPD in the summer</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; give your comments
    now or never :-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Maintain the
    resources pages: Overview, Tools, Vocabularies</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; In charge of this
    XG !</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; raphael mentions DOAP
    as an example of things we could do</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: what about
    a wiki?</p><a name="action08" id="action08"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael to see if the W3C wiki can be
    used to maintain these pages [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Giovanni volunteer
    these pages</p>

    <h3 id="item05">Discussion of "Semantic Web Image Annotation
    Interoperability"</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Jacco: this group
    should explore what is there and what could be improved</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ... W3C is
    concerned about what remains to be done in the multimedia
    domain</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ... needs for more
    industrial involvent</p>

    <p class='phone'>jacco says w3c is somehow puzzled about
    multimedia, traditionally being an ISO o MPEG-7 topic, but the
    topic of multimedia semantics is so clearly connected with the
    SW activity</p>

    <p class='phone'>so w3c should probably do even more</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; giovanni: metric of
    what the advantage of using the semantic web is might also
    involve just lines of code, not only performance etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: maybe
    interoperability deliverable should also be centered around
    clear use cases, not around the standards as it is now</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; jeff: are we talking
    about the deliverables in the charter?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: yes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: I'm not sure
    yet how many deliverables we are going to produce and it what
    order</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: The proposal
    includes to broaden the scope to other modalities, but focus on
    use cases</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: I agree to
    start from use cases, they do the same in RIF</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; giovanni: list of
    things we can do (semi) automatically, with some rating on how
    reliable this is</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; i agree to Vassilis
    starting from use cases</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; so we know when to
    connect for example to social tagging for things we cannot do
    automatic</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Ioannis: I think it
    is better to start from the use cases</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Giovanni: but the two
    are very similar</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; For example, if you
    have a music scenario, with a request for "similar" music, what
    do you mean by similar and what types of similarity can you do
    automatically?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Ioannis: but is a
    very broad question, use cases might focus discussion</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Vassilis: what is the
    focus? interoperability or the reliability of the extracted
    metadata?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Ioannis: stick to the
    existing use cases of the image annotation draft</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Jacco: I would like
    to stick to the use cases discussed in the morning</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; Raphael: we will
    discuss deadlines on the action points tomorrow</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jacco</cite>&gt; for use cases
    discussed in the morning, see action points at <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#ActionSummary">
    http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#ActionSummary</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>JeffP</cite>&gt;
    Restaurant-Caf&Atilde;&copy; In de Waag, Nieuwmarkt 4, 1012 CR
    Amsterdam</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chalaschek</cite>&gt; enjoy dinner
    everyone</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Massimo</cite>&gt; enjoy dinner and
    Amsterdam everyone !!! "see" you tomorrow</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pasquale</cite>&gt; ciao</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> ALL give comments
  on the "Image annotation on the Semantic Web" Working Draft
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> george to write
  up a use case around tagging [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Giovanni to
  coordinate write up of a use case on music [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Massimo to write
  up use case on analysis and reproducing content [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> raphael to see if
  the W3C wiki can be used to maintain these pages [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael to write
  up use case in the news domain [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> thierry to write
  up limitations of MPEG-7 description schemes [recorded in
  <a href="http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action02">
  http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Yioanis to write
  up use case showing the need for semantic interpretation of low
  level features [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.127 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2006/07/10 15:39:05 $
  </address>

  <div class="diagnostics">
    <hr />

    <h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
    before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
    <pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.127  of Date: 2005/08/16 15:12:03
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/Christioan/Christian/
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Found Scribe: jacco2
Inferring ScribeNick: jacco2
WARNING: No scribe lines found matching previous ScribeNick pattern: &lt;giovannit&gt; ...
Found Scribe: Giovanni
Found ScribeNick: giovannit
Scribes: jacco2, Giovanni
ScribeNicks: giovannit, jacco2

WARNING: Replacing list of attendees.
Old list: Jeff_Pan meeting_room Yannis massimo Vassilis
New list: Jeff_Pan meeting_room Vassilis Chalaschek JeffP

Default Present: Jeff_Pan, meeting_room, Vassilis, Chalaschek, JeffP
Present: Jeff_Pan meeting_room Vassilis Chalaschek JeffP
Agenda: <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-mmsem/2006Jul/0009.html</a>
Got date from IRC log name: 10 Jul 2006
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/10-mmsem-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: all george giovanni massimo raphael thierry yioanis

WARNING: Input appears to use implicit continuation lines.
You may need the "-implicitContinuations" option.


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