28-swxg-minutes.html
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<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
"http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">
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<head>
<meta name="generator" content=
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<title>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference -- 28 Oct
2009</title>
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<body>
<p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
"http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C" border="0" height=
"48" width="72" /></a></p>
<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
<h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>28 Oct 2009</h2>
<p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-irc">IRC
log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>DKA, Carine, +1.510.931.aaaa, Henry, +0162272aabb,
MacTed, mischat, hhalpin, tinkster, rreck, +1.858.442.aacc,
+03539149aadd, melvster</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>hhalpin</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Dan</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
2009-10-28T14:00-16:00GMT</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">General Organization</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">Invited Guest Invitations</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">User Stories</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">Final Report</a></li>
<li><a href="#item06"># Invited Speaker: Joseph Smarr from
Plaxo and Portable Contacts</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 28 October
2009</p>
<h3 id="item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
2009-10-28T14:00-16:00GMT</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> zakim, +0162272aabb
is me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i have done it 3
times :(</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> Scribe: Dan</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA</cite>> ScribeNick: DKA</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> any comments on the
agenda?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to
approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 21st October 2009 as a true
record</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/21-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: SWXG WG
Weekly -- 21st October 2009 are a true record</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> PROPOSED: to meet
again Wed. November 11th (Note that we are skiping the meeting
of Nov. 4th due to conflict with TPAC)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> next meeting will be Nov
11 - since we will skip next week due to TPAC.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> RESOLVED: Wed.
November 11th</p>
<h3 id="item02">General Organization</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> Should we have dial-in
facilities at TPAC?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> we need to reserve this
now if we want it...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> Probably not</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> would anyone dial in if
they are off-site?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> If anyone wants to,
they can.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> I will send an email out
to the list - if we will get more than 3 people then I will
request it.<br />
... I will include the agenda in the mail I send.<br />
... Any brief updates on TPAC or social web camp?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> <a href=
"http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara">http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> There are 68 people
signed up</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> update on the camp - the
last I saw there were 60 people singed up -<br />
... <a href=
"http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara">http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara</a><br />
... Can people please send that around / facebook / twitter /
identi.ca / whatever it... use sky-writing, etc...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> Sun is paying $10
for lunch</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>CaptSolo</cite>> Zakim: aadd is
me</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> David Morin from
Facebook.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Other good news on TPAC -
we have a number of observers coming in...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> there is an
echo</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Any updates on
actions?</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> tinkster
to summarize Evan's talk [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> I've posted that
to the list already.</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> DKA to
summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread
knowledge of these efforts among W3C members. [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> tinkster did you get
my email?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> hehe, i have
another couple of actions</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Giant congratulations to
mischat for finishing his action.</p><a name="action03" id=
"action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Mischa to
describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how
they change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Oct/0051.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009Oct/0051.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> Yes.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> there is an
echo</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i think is almost
done</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> I think it was
changed to DONE last week.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> mine</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> harry is
echoing</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> perhaps everyone
is</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> echo is based on
noise canceling</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> everyone seems to
be.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> yay
better</p><a name="action04" id="action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Adam to
write up Matt Lee's talk [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p><a name="action05"
id="action05"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> mtuffied
to put up wiki page about social networks deploying these
technologies. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p><a name="action06"
id="action06"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong>oshani to write up David Recordon and
Luke Shepart talk. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>
<h3 id="item03">Invited Guest Invitations</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> Ted will be talking about
applying social tech to w3.org...</p><a name="action07" id=
"action07"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> cperey to
book global lockbox as an invited speaker [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> i have no joy with
BBC persia</p><a name="action08" id="action08"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> mtiffiel
to invite BBC Persia people to talk about their use of social
media [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> nope will try
calling them again</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> will hassle</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> for another
week</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> hi i'm on the
call</p><a name="action09" id="action09"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> petef to
look into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris Messina [recorded
in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]</p>
<h3 id="item04">User Stories</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> we can talk user stories
and final report next week [at TPAC].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Will talk about
this next week at TPAC.</p><a name="action10" id=
"action10"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> adam to
write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]</p><a name="action11"
id="action11"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> rreck to
flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple identies and
null provenance [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action11">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action11</a>]</p><a name="action12"
id="action12"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> oshani to
reframe the geolocation/intent/portability [recorded in
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action12">
http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]</p><a name="action13"
id="action13"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> bblfish
to relabel data protection use case to be about controlled
access and takedown to data "about" you [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action13">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action13</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> mine is almost
done</p><a name="action14" id="action14"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> bblfish
to merge Family and Group access usecases [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action14">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action14</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i promise</p><a name=
"action15" id="action15"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> hhalpin
explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action15">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action15</a>]</p>
<h3 id="item05">Final Report</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> yes, I have not had
a lot of time to do much, on my use cases as I have been quite
busy organising <a href=
"http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara">http://barcamp.org/SocialWebCamp-Santa-Clara</a></p>
<h3 id="item06"># Invited Speaker: Joseph Smarr from Plaxo and
Portable Contacts</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://josephsmarr.com/">http://josephsmarr.com/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.plaxo.com/">http://www.plaxo.com/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://portablecontacts.net/">http://portablecontacts.net/</a></p>
<p class='phone'>Joseph Smarr: I'm CTO at Plaxo - Plaxo's about
contact management, keeping together sources of contact
data...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html">http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Lately I've been involved
with the so-called open stack. This is also strategic for
Plaxo.<br />
... A lot of these technologies are making progress - but
everything on the Web wants to add a social component. In order
to get that people data<br />
... reconnecting to those people you know is daunting. Most
sites are scraping your data using your
username/password.<br />
... until now the tools weren't available to do anything else.
Every single site has built their own contacts protocol / db /
etc...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> good point re
vendor-specific APIs over scraping</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> genesis of portable
contacts came out of [trying to solve this problem]. Because
even APIs when they are proprietary are not solving the
problem.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> ha!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> someone else building
contact API should be able to use them... With portable
contacts there should be a network effect -<br />
... so we get away from this vendor-by-vendor integration. This
is more how the Web should work.<br />
... portablecontacts.net</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> simple sounds like a
good idea</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> getting adoption is the
hardest thing - the best way to get adoption is to make the
protocol simple ... minimal tool-chain complexity...<br />
... it's not just having a standard schema for contacts, but
specifying how you authenticate, etc... end-to-end. But each
piece is "not invented" as possible.<br />
... Schema is taken from v-card, etc...<br />
... the discovery protocol is XRD. The auth protocols are http
basic or oauth. Simple REST-style [API].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> :) pausing for
breath!</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> that's basically where
things are at. It's a draft spec for a year. Plaxo, Google, MS,
[others?] have implemented...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Myspace has
implemented, and part of OpenSocial.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> have also got together
with the open social folks - they have specfified REST-ful
protocols for contacts. They did something similar. We worked
with them to make open social a subset of portable
contacts.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Adam:</cite> have you given thought how
it might have value to the enterprise?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Enterprise
deployment of PortableContacts...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> portable contacts useful
as itself as a useful protocol - so if you're building
applications that share contact info [even within the
enterprise] then I suggest using portable contacts
format.<br />
... if you can use portable contacts then you only have to
build it once if you want to integrate with other social
networks, etc...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
ask how far schema extensions can be supported in the
protocol</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>joseph:</cite> the other thing we do is
helping to educate market...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> louder please</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> How far can the schema be
extended without [breaking things]?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> q: how far can
schema be extended beforeyou go beyond what protocol can
understand? what's the plan for navigating that tension?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> :)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> we like the html model of
extensibility - if you want to extend then you can and we'll
ignore it if we don't understand it.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> +q</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> within each field there
is a type value and each in each type values there are
canonically specified values but you can use your own as
well... the auth protocols are also extensible.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> So we have examples
of those extra fields.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Wondering if
there's a wiki where these can be listed...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> it's intentionally quiet
around namespacing, extension mechanisms, etc... entire spec is
intended to be extensible.<br />
... Also - there's already been a lot of talk of using the
schema in other contexts - e.g. webfinger.<br />
... some work on an XML namespace is beginning. We could use
some help and guidance on that.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
"http://groups.google.com/group/portablecontacts/browse_thread/thread/6954a050d65485bf/ced1b56aaa246a85?lnk=gst&q=brickley#ced1b56aaa246a85">
http://groups.google.com/group/portablecontacts/browse_thread/thread/6954a050d65485bf/ced1b56aaa246a85?lnk=gst&q=brickley#ced1b56aaa246a85</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> some discussion of
xml ns there</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> grddl etc</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> On that topic - it' would
be interesting to see more alignment - between FOAF and
portable contacts.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Dan:</cite> What's the IPR policy of
portable contacts, etc...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> We are looking at open
web foundation or something... We're not going to make a
separate foundation. Most of the people who have contributed to
the spec understand that it will go in that direction.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> [relating the vcard schema
effort...]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>tinkster1</cite>> <a href=
"http://microformats.org/wiki/jcard">http://microformats.org/wiki/jcard</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> [circular statements that
have broken my fingers]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> woman's voice cross
talk</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Apple is spearheading a
card-dav effort - which is not using the XML schema.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> in <a href=
"http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html#schema">http://portablecontacts.net/draft-spec.html#schema</a>
i'd love to see a distinction between PC core, and the
opensocial stuff which seems less firm</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> there wasn't much in
there [vcard xml schema] that was controversial.<br />
... it would be good [to align these]<br />
... if you are interested then please say so on the [ietf?]
mailing list.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> IETF VCard 4.0
list.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Needs to be linked up to
JSON format. JSON can be serializable in modern languages like
PHP, etc... so no need for parsing.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> it appears that portable
contacts is a proper superset of vcard3.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> (also re I18N of
names ...)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 1-to-1 mapping
above vCard 3.0 and modernized some spellings</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> :)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> we modernized some of the
spellings - adr to address. Didn't need to be as terse as older
standards...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
"http://wiki.portablecontacts.net/">http://wiki.portablecontacts.net/</a></p><a name="action16"
id="action16"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to check out FOAF and
PortableContacts mapping. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action16">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action16</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-102
- Check out FOAF and PortableContacts mapping. [on Harry Halpin
- due 2009-11-04].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> there is a converted
between portable contacts and vcard...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> <a href=
"http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100">http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100</a>
re names</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> re additions to vcard 3
spec like tags and photos - this was taken from empirical data
about what people were using, right?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Yes.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> does Plaxo keep a record
of what sites support tagging, etc...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> +1 on both full
field or broken out field or both</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> if both, there is
assumption that one is derrived from the other</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> We used 2 sources for
info - all the address book APIs. We used a "composite" field
(for e.g. address) where you can store both a composite and
broken down version.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> chris messina has a
blog post has a big spreadsheet on contacts APIs.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> referred to
OpenSocial (i.e. Kevin Marks) did the field study on social
networking data (top 50)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I remember looking
for a URI for that spreadsheet!!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Anyone have it to
ping into IRC</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I saw it
once..thought it was a Google Doc.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>DKA1</cite>> ScribeNick: DKA1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Ron:</cite> it would be useful to have
uni-directional relationships.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> "but relationships
MUST have been bi-directionally confirmed" is interesting</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> assumes a b/g db</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> our goal was not to model
the social graph, but we wanted to express uni- and
bi-directional relathionships.<br />
... we have tags and relationships. That's meant to be used for
uni-directional relationships. In Plaxo when you connect to
someone you can connect as family, friends or business.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> i totally get what
you are saying thanks</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> when you have
bi-directional relationship then you have a special
relationship.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> danbri, you wanted to
ask about a PC core (that FOAF might adopt for base
addressbook; then diverge on favourite-movie or trust vocab /
group descriptions detail)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> on bi-directional
confirmation. Does this means there is an assumption of a
backing database?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> hmmm...just
starting thinking of XFN/hCard mappings as well....</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> the idea is that the
semantics are relative to the provider of the contacts
information. If you want to infer things like connection or
relationship then you are trusting the site...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> great observation</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> it doesn't [formalize]
the provenance.<br />
... if you think there's a compelling use then go build it and
jump on the mailing list...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> do you plan to make any
distinction of the core of portable contacts and the stuff
that's coming in from opensocial?<br />
... your schema has some things like "looking for" and some
wooly things from opensocial.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> they're not formally
separated but they are called out distinctly. I think the world
is changing pretty rapidly [as regards what is "core" contact
data].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> My guess is we are
going to run over 10-15 minutes.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Is this OK with
people?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> on Facebook you care
about a phone number but you also care about IM addresses
another social information that people have put on [their
profiles].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Zakim</cite>> caribou, you wanted
to ask about policies attached to data</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> +1 run over</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Danbri:</cite> how much naming stuff do
you want to do? Describing family names properly for every
culture / country....<br />
... nobody's done it yet - is portable contacts going to do
this?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> We try to be
internationally savvy. If you have feedback about what else we
could do please input it [on our mailing list]. In some
cultures people have multiple names. But adding that complexity
for everyone...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> when we write our
final report - maybe we should suggest some joint pc/w3c effort
to evaluate the i18n aspects of naming and come up with a 'good
enough for everyone' strategy?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> +1 danbri</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Caribou:</cite> I understand it's nice
to transfer data from one service to another - but if I
fine-tune my privacy data in one site and then the data is
transferred to another site then the policies are not
transferred withthe data.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> harry, can you bring
that up, you've got better audio....</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Yes - the protocol is
designed to only transfer the data, not the privacy
metadata.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> ok...will bring
this up.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> That's a place
where the W3C is doing some work I think</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> in a fully-interoperable
soclai web this would be handled. Needs to be explored
further...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Carine - do you
have a URI?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> for policy language
stuff?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> There's a portable
contacts google group - open to everyone.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>rreck</cite>> privacy seems against
social networking business models</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/policy-ws/cfp.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/policy-ws/cfp.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> that's the w3c
workshop on access.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> OpenID uses
URIs.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> well, back to final
report? i'd like us to agree that this base core (names stuff,
addresses ... but not turnOns/turnOffs) deserves to be done
once, well, in a way that works worldwide</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Henry:</cite> [the open stack] always
seems a little more complicated then it should be. Seems to be
"increasing the powers of silos". Seems like the simple way to
identify people would be by URL.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>caribou</cite>> hhalpin, the W3C
PLING is looking at sticky policies</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/Policy/pling/wiki/Main_Page">http://www.w3.org/Policy/pling/wiki/Main_Page</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ... and
PortableContacts imho is the most credible recent effort to
bring together addressbook and social network field sets; I
hope w3c can add an 18n perspective and assist in getting input
from rest of planet</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Henry:</cite> if you look at open social
- the way people are identified the first four characters are
split off - forcing all URLs to be URNs... It seems to force
complexity.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Carine - would it
be worthwhile to have PLING do a presentation after the Nov.
workshop?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> We are booked most
of Nov, but Dec. is free for invited speakers.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I'd like to finish
up with Invited speakers by Jan so we can move to final report
mode...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> to clarify - there is a
unique identifier ID field for each contact. It's been a URN by
convention but it's meant to be a local stable identifier. But
in addition the contacts can have emails URLs, etc...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> I was not clear how
mature the policy language work was.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> rather than it just being
a URL you can explicitly break out the domain, username,
etc...<br />
... so flickr, twitter, etc... can be broken out.... to
strongly identify a user across silos.<br />
... and the fact that there is a format to use to export the
data should be helping to move away from silos and towards
interop.</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> The task fo the SWXG -
we're interested in seeing what areas the W3C could play a role
[or not] in the wider social web ecosystem. You could imagine
something very light-weight... For example, reviewing
internationalization (Richard Ishida).<br />
... having some sort of relationship between W3C and OpenWeb
Foundation.<br />
... we could recommend that the W3C look into standardizing
things. Things like portable contacts, they are already
standards, but could W3C have a role here?<br />
... any opinions?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> we'll have eran on
I think in 2 weeks.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> or 3</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> expertise around
internationalization and with others standards</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> I'm a big believer in
standards and communities. Both as a structure for
collaboration and to add gravitas. I think those are valuable
suggestions. Last thing we want is a set of competing standards
bodies.<br />
... diversity is good.<br />
... all parties should feel like their voices are heard...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> One issue facing w3c is
the membership structure. This incubator group is open - more
or less anyone can join - but that's not normal for w3c. Is
that a barrier [to participation<br />
... ] in w3c?<br />
... we have OWF on the phone in 2 or three weeks and we are
trying to figure out what they are doing with process...</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Joseph:</cite> Portable contacts has
happened very organically. Mix of big companies, small
companies, independents, etc... I understand why some of these
bodies have rules about charter and IPR upfront, but nature of
some of these efforts is light and bottom-up...<br />
... [path to standardization] could move from light-weight
process to more formalized standards body...<br />
... to the extent that more process is necessary then
absolutely.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ok here's a quick
braindump re FOAF and Portable Contacts - <a href=
"http://wiki.foaf-project.org/w/DanBri/PortableContactsAndFOAFLinkage">
http://wiki.foaf-project.org/w/DanBri/PortableContactsAndFOAFLinkage</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> ... can take that to
the list for discussion cc Joseph</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> 1 year and a half,
pretty stable around 2009...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> have had as
updates.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> or on the mailing
list.</p><a name="action17" id="action17"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to ping issue richard ishida
to join portable contacts list [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action17">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action17</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-103
- Ping issue richard ishida to join portable contacts list [on
Harry Halpin - due 2009-11-04].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> yes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mischat</cite>> bye all</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>Adam</cite>> thanks joseph1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>bblfish</cite>> thanks joseph1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> If designing a form
or database that will accept names from people with a variety
of backgrounds, you should ask yourself whether you really need
to have separate fields for given name and family name.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> This will depend on
what you need to do with the data, but obviously it will be
simpler to just use the full name as the user provides it,
where possible.""""</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> from <a href=
"http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100">http://rishida.net/blog/?p=100</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> thanks alot
jsmarr!</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> Meeting
adjourned</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> thanks guys</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> btw, is this irc
transcript available/archived on the web at all/</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>danbri</cite>> jsmarr, when we do a
call on widget apis for social i'll bug you to join us again
... interesting links with mobile web there...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> We'll ping Ted
Guild over looking at PortableContacts for w3.org when his time
frees up.</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>jsmarr</cite>> e.g. that i could
link to for others to see the transcript</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>hhalpin</cite>> trackbot, end
meeting</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to check
out FOAF and PortableContacts mapping. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action16">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action16</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to ping
issue richard ishida to join portable contacts list [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action17">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action17</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> oshani to write
up David Recordon and Luke Shepart talk. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />
<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Adam to write
up Matt Lee's talk [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> adam to write
up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks [recorded
in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> bblfish to
merge Family and Group access usecases [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action14">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action14</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> bblfish to
relabel data protection use case to be about controlled access
and takedown to data "about" you [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action13">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action13</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> cperey to
book global lockbox as an invited speaker [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to
summarize OSLO and geoLocation conversation in order to spread
knowledge of these efforts among W3C members. [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin
explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action15">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action15</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to
describe/implement a report of terms and conditions, and how they
change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> mtiffiel to
invite BBC Persia people to talk about their use of social media
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> mtuffied to
put up wiki page about social networks deploying these
technologies. [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> oshani to
reframe the geolocation/intent/portability [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action12">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> petef to look
into activitystreams invite, maybe Chris Messina [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> rreck to
flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple identies and
null provenance [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action11">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action11</a>]<br />
<strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to
summarize Evan's talk [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
<address>
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2009/10/28 16:19:21 $
</address>
<div class="diagnostics">
<hr />
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Found Scribe: Dan
WARNING: No scribe lines found matching ScribeNick pattern: <Dan> ...
Found ScribeNick: DKA
Found ScribeNick: DKA1
ScribeNicks: DKA, DKA1
Default Present: DKA, Carine, +1.510.931.aaaa, Henry, +0162272aabb, MacTed, mischat, hhalpin, tinkster, rreck, +1.858.442.aacc, +03539149aadd, melvster
Present: DKA Carine +1.510.931.aaaa Henry +0162272aabb MacTed mischat hhalpin tinkster rreck +1.858.442.aacc +03539149aadd melvster
Found Date: 28 Oct 2009
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/10/28-swxg-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: adam bblfish cperey dka explain hhalpin mischa mtiffiel mtuffied oshani petef rreck tinkster
</pre>[End of <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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