30-mediafrag-minutes.html
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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 30 Sep
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<h1>- DRAFT -</h1>
<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>30 Sep 2009</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0151.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Raphael, Erik, Michael, Silvia_(irc_only), Thierry, davy,
Davy</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Yves, Jack</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Erik, Raphael</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>Erik</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">ADMIN</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">UC and Requirements</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">specification</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">Test Cases</a></li>
<li><a href="#item05">implementations</a></li>
<li><a href="#item06">AOB</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='phone'> </p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 30 September
2009</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Scribe: Erik</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Scribenick:
erik</p>
<p class='phone'>1.ADMIN</p>
<h3 id="item01">ADMIN</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/23-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>minutes from 23/09 accepted</p>
<p class='phone'>close action-111</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-111 Provide
CVS access to conrad closed</p>
<h3 id="item02">UC and Requirements</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-reqs/">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-reqs/</a></p>
<p class='phone'>policy about contributors & editors as of
decided in Barcelona F2F</p>
<p class='phone'>everybody should check his/her affiliation</p>
<p class='phone'>ACTIONS 105, 106, 113 ongoing by Raphael</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> ACTION 113 has been
finished</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
find user - 113</p>
<p class='phone'>Raphael suggests section 6 to go to Annex</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> yes silvia, thanks
:-)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>close action-113</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-113 Move
"Side Conditions" section to requirements doc only closed</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I am not fussed
about section 6 staying as section 6 or going into annex -
either works</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Davy and Erik to review Raphael's
documents [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-116
- And Erik to review Raphael's documents [on Davy Van Deursen -
due 2009-10-07].</p>
<h3 id="item03">specification</h3>
<p class='phone'>close action-109</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-109 And
Davy to write a paragraph in the documents to explain why we
don't include this feature in the spec (rationale) based on the
group analysis (impact both req and spec documents) closed</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> do we have a commit
mailing list on the WDs?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> what do you mean by
commit mailing list?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> for cvs commits on
the WD documents</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> they can be mailed
out - it is done on all open source projects that I am active
on</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> you mean a change
log section ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> no, just every "cvs
commit" creates an email with the commit message and the
diff</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> and it is sent out
to the group of people working on the code/document</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> helps heaps to stay
updated on changes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> i'm not sure this
is really useful, particularly since some people do just one
commit with a lot of changes, and some others, a commit for
every characters they change :-)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Silvia, any word
about action-109?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> yeah, I finished
that, too :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ACTION-110?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-110 --
Silvia Pfeiffer to silvia to Draft a summary starting from her
blog post and the 17/09/2009 IRC minutes in the document (role
of ? and #) -- due 2009-09-24 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/110">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/110</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I finished that</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> please feel free to
review the changes I made</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> raphael: it doesn't
matter how many changes are being made - it is really useful -
I know it from other projects</p>
<p class='phone'>close action-110</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-110 Silvia
to Draft a summary starting from her blog post and the
17/09/2009 IRC minutes in the document (role of ? and #)
closed</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> but if that is not
something W3C typically hook into the commit, then it's too
hard</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to review Silvia's summary of
her blogpost [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-117
- Review Silvia's summary of her blogpost [on Raphaël Troncy -
due 2009-10-07].</p>
<p class='phone'>postpone discussion on URI-templates?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> I will actually
review the whole section 3</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> public commit logs
tend to encourage people to commit at a useful frequency, ie.
not too often or too infrequently</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> We postpone the
discussio on: "should we provide one or several URI templates
in complement</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> of the BNF syntax
provided in the spec for the definition of Media</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Fragments URI?</p>
<p class='phone'>rssagent, draft minutes</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> ACTION-112?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-112 --
Raphaël Troncy to propose a digest of Conrad and current's
proposal regarding the use of existing and custom headers for
the communication UA server -- due 2009-09-25 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/112">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/112</a></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> yes, I worked over
the complete section 3, raphael</p>
<p class='phone'>Raphael will work on Action-112 today as this
is a blocking factor for publication</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> my actions are
still pending</p>
<h3 id="item04">Test Cases</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#fragment-dimensions">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/WD-media-fragments-spec/#fragment-dimensions</a></p>
<p class='phone'>michael is updating test tool</p>
<p class='phone'>michael's actions are still
pending</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> michael to come up with individual
'normal' test cases (+/- 20) [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-118
- Come up with individual 'normal' test cases (+/- 20) [on
Michael Hausenblas - due 2009-10-07].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> the TC overview
could look like <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/implementation-report/">http://www.w3.org/2006/07/SWD/RDFa/implementation-report/</a></p>
<p class='phone'>raphael wonders how test case doc will look
like</p>
<p class='phone'>michael ... table of test cases automatically
generated</p>
<p class='phone'>raphael ... after publication, implemetors can
use this to test their implementation</p>
<h3 id="item05">implementations</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I would already use
it in the html5 pages to make sure I cover all important test
cases</p>
<p class='phone'>davy ... updated MMLab's parser</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> can handle all the
proposed time schemes<br />
... updated range headers (via two firefox add-ins to
test)<br />
... would like to have players that can do that ...</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Are these 2 add-ons
required: <a href=
"https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/967">https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/967</a>
and <a href=
"https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3829?">https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/3829?</a>
for inspecting headers request and response?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> difficult to use
content-range header</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> davy: do you have an
updated URL? <a href=
"http://schutz.elis.ugent.be:8080/DownloadServlet/fragf2f.ogg">http://schutz.elis.ugent.be:8080/DownloadServlet/fragf2f.ogg</a>
is 404</p>
<p class='phone'>davy ... these are indeed the add-ons</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> raphael: they are
not required, but they help you work out what is going on</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> you can also create
the http headers through javascript</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> the problem is that
UAs do not understand time Content-Ranges</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I want to work on
this as a demo with davy's server</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> yeah, everything has
to be emulated with javascript right now</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> so we need to
suggest that UAs display the "start-end/total" values
appropriately, eg. in the seek bar</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Davy points out
that the instance-length in the content-range headers is
ignored by the media player plugin</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> Conrad: is it
something we need to push to the browser vendors ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> some of it</p>
<p class='phone'>davy ... server implementation is allright, we
just need players that support these extra headers</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> firefox 3.5 will use
X-Content-Duration to display the seek bar</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> value is a floating
point number of seconds</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> it is to fake it
and will work only on firefox ? but worth to test it</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> sure</p>
<p class='phone'>within IBBT we will also try to come with a
media player that is able to understand all headers</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> the point is that
browser vendors need to see the impact and understand the
usefulness, which is why a javascript implementation is
useful</p>
<h3 id="item06">AOB</h3>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> then they can decide
to follow our specifications and implement it natively</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>conrad</cite>> davy: also try
putting the urls through validator.annodex.org , just thinking
we can update that for such testing</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> [meeting
adjourned]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> oh cool! early
finish! time to go fix some stuff :)</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>raphael</cite>> yep</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Davy and Erik to
review Raphael's documents [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> michael to come
up with individual 'normal' test cases (+/- 20) [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to review
Silvia's summary of her blogpost [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
<hr />
<address>
Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
$Date: 2009/09/30 09:43:19 $
</address>
<div class="diagnostics">
<hr />
<h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
<pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135 of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>
Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)
Succeeded: s/2 headers/2 add-ons/
Found Scribe: Erik
Found ScribeNick: erik
Default Present: raphael, mhausenblas, tmichel, erik, conrad
Present: Raphael Erik Michael Silvia_(irc_only) Thierry davy Davy
Regrets: Yves Jack
Agenda: <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0151.html">http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Sep/0151.html</a>
Found Date: 30 Sep 2009
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/09/30-mediafrag-minutes.html</a>
People with action items: davy erik michael troncy
</pre>[End of <a href=
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scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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