08-mediafrag-minutes.html 21.1 KB

Raw Blame History Permalink

<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD XHTML 1.0 Transitional//EN"
    "http://www.w3.org/TR/xhtml1/DTD/xhtml1-transitional.dtd">

<html lang='en' xmlns="http://www.w3.org/1999/xhtml" xml:lang="en">
<head>
  <meta name="generator" content=
  "HTML Tidy for Linux/x86 (vers 12 April 2005), see www.w3.org" />

  <title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 08 Apr
  2009</title>
  <link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
  "http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/base.css" />
  <link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
  "http://www.w3.org/StyleSheets/public.css" />
  <link type="text/css" rel="STYLESHEET" href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2004/02/minutes-style.css" />
  <meta content="Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference"
  name="Title" />
  <meta content="text/html; charset=utf-8" http-equiv=
  "Content-Type" />
</head>

<body>
  <p><a href="http://www.w3.org/"><img src=
  "http://www.w3.org/Icons/w3c_home" alt="W3C" border="0" height=
  "48" width="72" /></a></p>

  <h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>08 Apr 2009</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2009Apr/0019.html'>
  Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>Silvia, Raphael, Yves, Jack, Davy, Erik</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Michael, Conrad</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>Erik, Raphael</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>Silvia</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">ADMIN</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">Upcoming F2F Meeting in
        Barcelona:</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">PREPARATION OF WORKING DRAFT</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">action review</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item05">AOB</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 08 April
    2009</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Scribe: Silvia</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; scribenick:
    nessy</p>

    <h3 id="item01">ADMIN</h3>

    <p class='phone'>PROPOSED to accept the minutes of the 01st
    April 2009 telecon:</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/01-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>davy</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <h3 id="item02">Upcoming F2F Meeting in Barcelona:</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> no teleconf next week
    but F2F on Thu &amp; Fri<br />
    ... no teleconf the week after F2F because of WWW conf<br />
    ... next teleconf is on 29th April<br />
    ... any objections?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> no objections</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> this hour is more
    convenient for Silvia &amp; Conrad</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> we keep this hour</p>

    <p class='phone'>Agenda building</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ThirdF2FAgenda">
    http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/ThirdF2FAgenda</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> will assume until 2pm it
    is reasonable to have Silvia on phone<br />
    ... will make proposal to put discussion points into time
    slots<br />
    ... a discussion on each section of the WD</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> suggestion to have another
    HTTP 2-way / 4-way discussion to get Conrad's input<br />
    ... wants to be present for that</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> is planned and will take
    place in the morning</p>

    <h3 id="item03">PREPARATION OF WORKING DRAFT</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> go through section per
    section and distribute actions<br />
    ... Introduction</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> volunteers to write the
    introduction</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> nessy to write introduction [recorded
    in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - nessy</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia to write introduction [recorded
    in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-58
    - Write introduction [on Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2009-04-15].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> discussion on order of
    the first three sections</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Silvia: i need to
    revisit the framework, side conditions</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ... re: issue with
    transcoding</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ... this should go
    first</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ... and then talk
    about the use cases and scenarios and ultimately, the
    dimensions</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jackjansen:</cite> if requirements move
    up, we need something that gets people in the right frame of
    mind</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Jack: put the
    requirements first might break the flow of the reading</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Silvia:</cite> most sections are still
    independent blocks<br />
    ... we need lead-over text<br />
    ... introduction will set the stage, requirements set the
    framework</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> maybe move use cases into
    appendix</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> use cases are core to
    the understanding or our challenges and provide motivation for
    the dimensions<br />
    ... might be interesting to move the "requirements" up - might
    be renamed to "side conditions"</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> agrees to move up "side
    conditions"<br />
    ... requirements are really section 5</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> new order is 1, 2, 4, 3,
    5<br />
    ... rename 4 -&gt; side conditions<br />
    ... rename 5 -&gt; requirements</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> agree</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jack:</cite> agree</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>erik</cite>&gt; what about typical UC
    per axis (temporal/spatial/track/named) to get the reader
    acquainted with the problems (and special cases to
    appendix)?</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia to make these changes and other
    changes to sections 1-5 [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-59
    - Make these changes and other changes to sections 1-5 [on
    Silvia Pfeiffer - due 2009-04-15].</p>

    <p class='phone'>raphael will make structural changes to WD
    directly after the teleconf</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> silvia can then work on
    it when she has time</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> there are a lot of use
    cases and it may be interesting to move some to appendix</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Erik: i wonder if
    the individual use cases should be ordered differently,
    following the various dimensions: time, space, track, name</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Silvia: I think it
    is better to group them as they are, by functionality</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> they make for fast reading
    and need to be part of the reading flow</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> what about moving the
    out-of-scope cases into a separate section</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> I like it that the use
    cases are ordered by usage<br />
    ... problem is that there are so many and they slow down
    reading speed<br />
    ... 17 different use cases may be too much detail</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> original charter had 2
    documents - a use cases &amp; requirements ... and a technology
    document<br />
    ... we now have all in one document<br />
    ... we can later split documents again if it is too much to
    read<br />
    ... can discuss at F2F<br />
    ... should leave it for now<br />
    ... so we have the current status together in a single
    document</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> ok leave it as is</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> agree</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> section 5<br />
    ... replace the numbers with req-xx<br />
    ... and move the table to an appendix</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Raphael: replace
    the 1,2,3 in the fitness table by human readable labels: fit,
    partial, etc.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> instead of having the table
    5.5, it makes more sense to list the types of capabilities
    containers have</p>

    <p class='phone'>nessy to add a note to the table &amp; running
    text that we ask people for input to the table to complete
    it</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Silvia: add also an
    editorial note in the main text to warn the commnity we need
    their input to complete this table</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> I will add these
    changes</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> section 6<br />
    ... improved heaps</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> if we should move stuff to
    appendix, we can live with that<br />
    ... table in 6.3 still needs heaps of input</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> MPEG-7 has track
    references</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> HTML5 should be removed,
    since it will do whatever we define<br />
    ... replace "temporal URI" with "temporal URI/Ogg" to include
    the track addressing, to<br />
    ... "Annodex" would be correct, too, but "temporal URI" is the
    best known spec out of this</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> should section 6 be
    moved down in the document, so we can get specifications
    first?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> I can live with that</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> I will move this section
    down and do all structural changes on document directly after
    the meeting before anyone else will edit again</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> editorial suggestion - 6.2
    is formatted completely different from 6.1<br />
    ... formatting of 6.1 is great - could we apply it to 6.2 ?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>erik:</cite> will make
    changes</p><a name="action04" id="action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> erik to apply changes to section 6
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-60
    - Apply changes to section 6 [on Erik Mannens - due
    2009-04-15].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> section 7<br />
    ... in section 7.3 we stop talking about fragments, but talk
    about sections or segments<br />
    ... 7.3 needs an introductory note</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> I will create an
    introductory note and explain that it can be either a fragment
    or a query<br />
    ... we need some standard terminology</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> do we call it dimensions
    or axis</p>

    <p class='phone'>general consensus on "dimension</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> do we prefer "temporal"
    over "time" - "spatial" over "space" - "named" over
    "name"?<br />
    ... track will stay track</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> all others become
    "temporal", "spatial", "named"</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> I tend to use "clipping"
    for temporal and "cropping" for spatial<br />
    ... is that a good idea or should we just use one?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> "clipping" has a different
    implication for audio ... maybe "cutting"?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> but we use "audio clip"</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> ok, fair enough</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> 7.4 might need more
    structure ... but how<br />
    ... is still very incomplete<br />
    ... need to continue collecting semantic issues</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Semantic issue:
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/issues/3</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> restructure when we have a
    more complete collection</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> suggestion to add a note
    to the section explaining the need to contribute more semantic
    issues</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> ok, will do</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> section 8<br />
    ... Yves pointed out that 4-way contained errors</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> did not understand from
    temporal URI where the resolution of time-bytes happens</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> I will go back and read
    that section again and make sure the 4-way is correctly
    specified</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia and conrad to review 4-way
    handshake specification [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-61
    - And conrad to review 4-way handshake specification [on Silvia
    Pfeiffer - due 2009-04-15].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Yves</cite>&gt; and I note that there
    is still a discussion on the ML ;)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> should reply be 204 in
    initial handshake for 4-way handshake</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> if you're sending content,
    then no</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> that is missing in the
    specification</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> header is being sent in
    first handshake</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jack:</cite> in 2-way handshake this may
    be missing, too - but it's more complicated</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> silvia &amp; conrad -
    please make changes in wiki ... I will then sync the wiki with
    the WD myself</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> ok</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ACTION-55?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-55 -- Yves
    Lafon to change the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled --
    due 2009-04-08 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/55">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/55</a></p>

    <h3 id="item04">action review</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; close ACTION-55</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-55 Change
    the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled closed</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ACTION-56?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-56 -- Yves
    Lafon to change the formal grammar to have unreserved
    characters + %-escaped ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of
    pchars -- due 2009-04-08 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/56">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/56</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; close ACTION-56</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-56 Change
    the formal grammar to have unreserved characters + %-escaped
    ones in utf8string and _not_ a set of pchars closed</p>

    <p class='phone'>close ACTION-55</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-55 Change
    the formal grammar to have 'percent' spelled closed</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Yves: I have just
    done a small modification in the ABNF synta</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Yves:</cite> I added pchar to make it
    consistent</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; Jack: to move these
    changes in the WD</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ACTION-49?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-49 -- Yves
    Lafon to draft the HTTP-Range syntax for different units
    (completing all the syntax for the two way handshake) -- due
    2009-03-25 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/49</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>still open</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; close ACTION-51</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-51
    Summarize the content of the wiki page to put in the main
    document, with few examples and a short story closed</p>

    <p class='phone'>erik finalized that</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; ACTION-57?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-57 -- Jack
    Jansen to enter formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found,
    regarding a) transcoding and b) spatial cropping -- due
    2009-04-08 -- OPEN</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/57">http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/57</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; close ACTION-57</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; ACTION-57 Enter
    formally in the tracker the ISSUE he has found, regarding a)
    transcoding and b) spatial cropping closed</p>

    <p class='phone'>jack finalized 57</p>

    <h3 id="item05">AOB</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> we will not publish
    document tomorrow<br />
    ... let's aim for publication on Tuesday<br />
    ... would prefer making the request to publish it before the
    F2F because the WWW conference will delay it further
    otherwise</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>nessy:</cite> +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>raphael:</cite> thanks for attending
    conference and will see you next week</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; will give it a
    try</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>raphael</cite>&gt; type: s/Topic:
    Actions Review/Topic: Actions Review</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> erik to apply
  changes to section 6 [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> nessy to write
  introduction [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia and conrad
  to review 4-way handshake specification [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia to make
  these changes and other changes to sections 1-5 [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> silvia to write
  introduction [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/04/08-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2009/04/11 20:08:52 $
  </address>

</body>
</html>