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<title>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference -- 26 May
2010</title>
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<h1>Media Fragments Working Group Teleconference</h1>
<h2>26 May 2010</h2>
<p><a href=
'http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0074.html'>
Agenda</a></p>
<p>See also: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-irc">IRC log</a></p>
<h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>
<div class="intro">
<dl>
<dt>Present</dt>
<dd>Michael, Erik, Raphael, Davy, Silvia, (irc)</dd>
<dt>Regrets</dt>
<dd>Silvia</dd>
<dt>Chair</dt>
<dd>Erik, Raphael</dd>
<dt>Scribe</dt>
<dd>raphael</dd>
</dl>
</div>
<h2>Contents</h2>
<ul>
<li>
<a href="#agenda">Topics</a>
<ol>
<li><a href="#item01">1. Admin</a></li>
<li><a href="#item02">2. Specification</a></li>
<li><a href="#item03">3. Test Cases</a></li>
<li><a href="#item04">4. AOB ?</a></li>
</ol>
</li>
<li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
</ul>
<hr />
<div class="meeting">
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='phone'></p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Date: 26 May
2010</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribe: raphael</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>> Scribenick:
raphael</p>
<h3 id="item01">1. Admin</h3>
<p class='phone'>PROPOSED to accept the short minutes of the 19
May 2010 telecon</p>
<p class='phone'><a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/19-mediafrag-minutes.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'>Minutes accepted</p>
<p class='phone'>ACTION-162?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-162 --
Raphaël Troncy to provide practical information for the next
F2F -- due 2010-05-19 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/162">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/162</a></p>
<p class='phone'>close ACTION-162</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-162 Provide
practical information for the next F2F closed</p>
<p class='phone'>More details: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/SixthF2FAgenda">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/wiki/SixthF2FAgenda</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I think Yves will be
able to carry the 4-5 people to the meeting from the hotel
since he is living close by<br />
... I think we should propose a talk to the Open Video
Conference</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> what about proposing a duo
presentation, Raphael and Davy, similar to WWW, but more
complete</p>
<p class='phone'>+1</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>davy</cite>> +1</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> we can work out the
abstract starting from the WWW one on the mailing list<br />
... I think we should go for the 30-45' talk</p><a name=
"action01" id="action01"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael to send on the mailing list
the abstract for a talk proposal [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Sorry, couldn't
find user - Raphael</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to send on the mailing list the
abstract for a talk proposal [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-165
- Send on the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal [on
Raphaël Troncy - due 2010-06-02].</p>
<h3 id="item02">2. Specification</h3>
<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> still a lot of action to
Yves, we cannot talk about still</p>
<p class='phone'>ACTION-123?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-123 --
Silvia Pfeiffer to come up with ABNF for header syntax -- due
2009-12-09 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/123">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/123</a></p>
<p class='phone'>close ACTION-123</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-123 Come up
with ABNF for header syntax closed</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Frank Denoual has
commented on Silvia's work and Silvia has addressed the
comments<br />
... I'm all for giving an action to Yves for reviewing the
ABNF</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>erik</cite>> +1</p><a name=
"action03" id="action03"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> yves to review the ABNF syntax of the
HTTP headers introduced by the Media Fragment URI spec
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-166
- Review the ABNF syntax of the HTTP headers introduced by the
Media Fragment URI spec [on Yves Lafon - due 2010-06-02].</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> rendering of fragment in
UA ... how far should we go</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> we should discuss
possibilities, but not provide recommendations</p>
<h3 id="item03">3. Test Cases</h3>
<p class='phone'>ACTION-164?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-164 -- Erik
Mannens to report to the group whether such an approach from
RDFa test suite can be used for automatically testing the media
fragment specification -- due 2010-05-26 -- OPEN</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/164">
http://www.w3.org/2008/WebVideo/Fragments/tracker/actions/164</a></p>
<p class='phone'>See also: <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0067.html">
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-media-fragment/2010May/0067.html</a></p>
<p class='phone'>close ACTION-164</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-164 Report
to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can
be used for automatically testing the media fragment
specification closed</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> ok with the extension,
but my problem is that we do not rely only on the HTTP status
code<br />
... there is also the need for a user assessment that the
visual rendering is correct</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> really? if we do not
recommend the rendering of a fragment, then no need ... for the
automatic test suite<br />
... and there are 2 kind of evaluations, server side and UA
side<br />
... for me there is test suite for the UA (correct parsing of
the media fragment URI syntax + correct rendering of the
fragment?) and the test suite for the server (the automatic
test suite from Davy we are talking about)</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> we have done our own
implementation, JSON files, no DB, but we would like to link it
to corrib now</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> is there some pointers I
can have a look to to better understand what you have done</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> can we say that
mftc:expectedHTTPStatusCode<br />
... returns a 2xx ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
"http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p2-semantics-08#section-8.2.1">
http://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-httpbis-p2-semantics-08#section-8.2.1</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> for a 206 or a 200</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
"http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-10.2.1">http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc2616#section-10.2.1</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I like this ontology:
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2008/http-statusCodes">http://www.w3.org/2008/http-statusCodes</a><br />
... My other concern is do we want a litteral for the property
mftc:expectedVisualResults ?<br />
... or do we want controlled values ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/TR/HTTP-in-RDF10/">http://www.w3.org/TR/HTTP-in-RDF10/</a></p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> do we really need this
property if we test the server?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> no automatic evaluation for
this one, not trivial<br />
... we actually test more than the HTTP headers, for example
that the bytes sent in the body of the response correspond to
the original bytes in the media</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> I would suggest to
remove this property if we don't see how it will be used</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Davy:</cite> I'm thinking of using
corrib for testing also the UA side<br />
... so I might need it later on<br />
... then we need to think now about the test framework for the
UA side!<br />
... because we will NOT edit again and again the test suite</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Michael:</cite> I agree with you</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> how we should proceed
then ?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Erik:</cite> should we have test movies
? How many ?</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> we can use the one
Silvia is using (the cartoon, need to find the title) used by
Mozilla demos<br />
... we don't need many, perhaps 5 in different formats, would
be good</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> Elephant Dreams</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> Silvia, if you're
reading, could we give you an ACTION to find 4-5 movies,
licence free, we could use in our test cases ?<br />
... Elephant Dreams is one of them<br />
... what else ?</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> very hard indeed</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> I go to creative
commons and download from there</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>mhausenblas</cite>> Michael:
Server-Test Suite would consist of: corrib-output (RDF):
manifest, media files, driver (takes manifest and applies to
each set of media files and generates EARL)</p><a name=
"action04" id="action04"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Erik to find licence free movies for
the automatic test suite ... starting with Elephant Dreams and
the creative commons [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-167
- Find licence free movies for the automatic test suite ...
starting with Elephant Dreams and the creative commons [on Erik
Mannens - due 2010-06-02].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> <a href=
"http://creativecommons.org/videos">http://creativecommons.org/videos</a></p><a name="action05"
id="action05"></a>
<p class='irc'><<cite>scribe</cite>>
<strong>ACTION:</strong> Davy to investigate how the automatic
test suite could also be done for evaluating the UA behavior
[recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> Created ACTION-168
- Investigate how the automatic test suite could also be done
for evaluating the UA behavior [on Davy Van Deursen - due
2010-06-02].</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>silvia</cite>> just get videos from
there</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> we are waiting for the
output of this action before asking Michael to extend
corrib</p>
<h3 id="item04">4. AOB ?</h3>
<p class='phone'>close ACTION-164</p>
<p class='irc'><<cite>trackbot</cite>> ACTION-164 Report
to the group whether such an approach from RDFa test suite can
be used for automatically testing the media fragment
specification closed</p>
<p class='phone'>[meeting adjourned]</p>
<p class='phone'><cite>Raphael:</cite> I hope we will have Yves
and Jack on the phone next week to progress further !</p>
</div>
<h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Davy to
investigate how the automatic test suite could also be done for
evaluating the UA behavior [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Erik to find
licence free movies for the automatic test suite ... starting
with Elephant Dreams and the creative commons [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Raphael to send
on the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> troncy to send on
the mailing list the abstract for a talk proposal [recorded in
<a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />
<strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> yves to review
the ABNF syntax of the HTTP headers introduced by the Media
Fragment URI spec [recorded in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2010/05/26-mediafrag-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />
<br />
[End of minutes]<br />
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$Date: 2010/05/26 09:54:31 $
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