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  <h1>- DRAFT -</h1>

  <h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>02 Dec 2009</h2>

  <p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-irc">IRC
  log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd>+39.011.228.aaaa, +049172247aabb, hhalpin,
      +1.774.811.aacc, +1.781.273.aadd, claudio, MacTed,
      +7.970.94.aaff, rreck, AlexPassant, tpa</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>hhalpin</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>AlexPassant</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
        2009-12-02T16:00-17:00GMT</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">User Stories</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item03">For Final Report</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item04">Invited Guest Invitations</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item05">Chris Messina on
        ActivityStreams</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 02 December
    2009</p>

    <p class='phone'>zakim where are u :-) ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>yoshiaki</cite>&gt; 7994 might be
    mine, yoshiaki</p>

    <h3 id="item01">Convene SWXG WG meeting of
    2009-12-02T16:00-17:00GMT</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; not that i want to,
    but i cant scribe</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; I could easily be
    the worst scribe ever</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i thought its me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; pchampin: it might be
    you</p>

    <p class='phone'>ok i will</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; scribe:
    AlexPassant</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; scribenick:
    AlexPassant</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to
    approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 25th November 2009 as a true
    record</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/11/25-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/25-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> minutes of last week</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; pchampin: yeah its
    you</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; RESOLVED: approved
    SWXG WG Weekly -- 25th November 2009 as a true record</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> no objections</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to meet
    again Wed. Decemeber 9th</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> next week</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; FOAF and FOAF+SSL
    and RDF for data integration over social nets...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; DanBri, can you
    make next week/</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> FOAF and FOAF+SSL and
    RDF for data integration on the Social Web</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Henry Story?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; just a sec</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> will talk about FOAF
    Updating coordination<br />
    ... ideally with portable contacts</p>

    <h3 id="item02">User Stories</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Adam</cite>&gt; +1 Alex</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Tim?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> user stories</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> Progress on user stories</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/RequirementsAndUseCases-WorkArea">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/RequirementsAndUseCases-WorkArea</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; very nice!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> changed the order of
    stories<br />
    ... structure of the document</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; which user am
    I?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> business model angle<br />
    ... corporate contect (e.g. soc net in large compagny)<br />
    ... featureS: linking people annotating, consuming<br />
    ... structured in 10 parts, from an end-user perspective<br />
    ... try to get a comprehensive view of the field</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; +1 on presence
    management</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; *great* UseCases
    revision.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> lots of changes in a
    week</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; *Very* good
    work.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; zakim
    +1.617.848.aajj is me</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> help needed on some user
    stories<br />
    ... to get them filled<br />
    ... better direction for the document</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ack ??P26</p>

    <p class='phone'>no</p>

    <p class='phone'>I just handed up for zakim</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Are these no longer
    relevant?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Happy to kill
    them...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> what about actions on
    the weekly agenda<br />
    ... are they still required ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Do you want me to
    tell me which ones are still relevant?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> some of them might be still
    needed, some not<br />
    ... have to go through</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; you can close my
    action on business narrative from last week</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> can drop the older
    ones</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> corporate story still valid
    (adam)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Adam</cite>&gt; i am</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> business - done</p><a name=
    "action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[DONE]</strong> cperey to take
    business narrative [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - <strong>[DONE]</strong></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; re API/widget
    discussion, I met with Robin Berjon briefly last week, he's
    keen to come talk w/ us re DAP WG and related</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ACTION
    <strong>[DONE]</strong>: cperey to take business narrative</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - <strong>[DONE]</strong></p><a name="action02" id=
    "action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[DONE]</strong> cperey to take
    business narrative [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> let people listed on the old
    ones to decide themselves</p><a name="action03" id=
    "action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> adam to
    take on corporate story [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; pchampin: thanks</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> some are still usable and
    needed</p><a name="action04" id="action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[DONE]</strong> (2 weeks) adam
    to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> use cases moved to section 4
    (third party)<br />
    ... including APIs<br />
    ... mostly tries to do a mapping</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> some ended up in multiple
    categories</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> fill-in description for
    each of them<br />
    ... went through the all section, feedback required</p><a name=
    "action05" id="action05"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> rreck to
    flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple identies and
    null provenance (rreck) [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> is that a sufficient
    level of detail at this time ?<br />
    ... or is that too much ?<br />
    ... needs review on the first section</p><a name="action06" id=
    "action06"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> oshani to
    reframe the geolocation/intent/portability (2 weeks) [recorded
    in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> as it will drive the rest
    of the work<br />
    ... sectino on business models</p><a name="action07" id=
    "action07"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> bblfish
    to relabel data protection use case to be about controlled
    access and takedown to data "about" you (2 weeks) [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> is this the right place
    for this content ?<br />
    ... not sure that it needs to be there<br />
    ... out of scope ?</p><a name="action08" id="action08"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> bblfish
    to merge Family and Group access usecases (2 weeks) [recorded
    in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> economic / revenue
    belongs to this document ?<br />
    ... business models seems odd where it is at the
    moment</p><a name="action09" id="action09"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> (2 weeks) hhalpin explain to henry and
    oshani doc editing process for usecases (2 weeks) [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - (2</p><a name="action10" id="action10"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> (2 weeks)
    hhalpin explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for
    usecases (2 weeks) [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> template at the top of the
    catalogue<br />
    ... need description of corporate context and developer
    views<br />
    ... tags to each story would make sense<br />
    ... but bery good description</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> tpa can you do tags<br />
    ... to avoid heterogeneity</p><a name="action11" id=
    "action11"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> tanglade to tag existing stories
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action11">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action11</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-114
    - Tag existing stories [on Tim Anglade - due 2009-12-09].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> better consistency if
    only one / 2 people to the tags<br />
    ... be consistent with the tags</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> original doc was called
    reuirements and use-cases<br />
    ... business part is more about requirements<br />
    ... nice illustration of the user stories<br />
    ... included some way in the final report<br />
    ... as it matters , on a bigger extent<br />
    ... site X uses this block and that one<br />
    ... get a complete catalogue</p>

    <h3 id="item03">For Final Report</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> nice illustration</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> buiness X wants to
    Y<br />
    ... what are the requirements<br />
    ... necessary for business but not for users<br />
    ... more an argumentative / narrative</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; you are dropping out
    hhalpin</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i can</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; maybe it was just
    me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; This definitely
    needs some manpower, but keeping it short and sweet is
    great.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> some are very
    straightforward stories</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Adam</cite>&gt; yeah, i will have more
    time coming up</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> will work on it</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; ill put some time
    in ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> like to get most of the
    stories filled by next week<br />
    ... then can concentrate on the narrative, tagging</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I'll give it a good
    review over Christmas...#</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> needs one or 2 people</p>

    <h3 id="item04">Invited Guest Invitations</h3>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; hi</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> invited guest agenda</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> updted on the
    widgets</p><a name="action12" id="action12"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> danbri to
    find someone from Opera to talk Widgets (2 weeks) [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action12">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]</p><a name="action13"
    id="action13"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> hhalpin
    to try to get TimBL to either talk or write-up his use-cases
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action13">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action13</a>]</p>

    <h3 id="item05">Chris Messina on ActivityStreams</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> invited speaker</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; morning
    all</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> Chris Messina on
    Activity Streams</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; I will be able to
    time and effort into this tpa hhalpin</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; action danbri set up
    a *oodle thing to pick a date for widget/apis telecon</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-115
    - Set up a *oodle thing to pick a date for widget/apis telecon
    [on Dan Brickley - due 2009-12-09].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> forwarded links about a
    week ago<br />
    ... let Chris introduce himself<br />
    ... DISO, etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://activitystrea.ms/">http://activitystrea.ms/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://diso-project.org/">http://diso-project.org/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> interest in social
    web, communities<br />
    ... for the last 5 yeasrs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/12/20/where-were-going-with-activity-streams/">
    http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2008/12/20/where-were-going-with-activity-streams/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> worked on firefox
    marketing</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://factoryjoe.com/blog">http://factoryjoe.com/blog</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> introduction to the
    power of social web / open source<br />
    ... what a community was like<br />
    ... started on Flock<br />
    ... open source architect</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Links to most the
    projects are here:</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://factoryjoe.com/blog/projects/">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/projects/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> fundamental vision:
    browsers are for a web of documents, not for a web of
    people<br />
    ... make easier to enable interactions<br />
    ... link all the social networks that one's part of<br />
    ... time before google acq. youtube, etc.<br />
    ... browser as the natural place to list people and friends</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; a browser for
    myspace :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> left when the
    browser idea changed<br />
    ... microformats community<br />
    ... let browsers support microformats<br />
    ... involved in the openid community</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; +1 flocks very
    useful when we in W3C were looking at microformats and RDF with
    GRDDL...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> get oauth off the
    ground<br />
    ... openid board member<br />
    ... 2 years term<br />
    ... involvement in the activity streams project</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://activitystrea.ms/">http://activitystrea.ms/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> DISO project<br />
    ... ... opensocial was not open nor social<br />
    ... needded for open social network<br />
    ... DISO came a framework for such Open SocNet<br />
    ... will hopefully provide interoperrability building blocks
    for the social web</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ActivityStream
    Generator for Opera: <a href=
    "http://dev.opera.com/libraries/activitystream/">http://dev.opera.com/libraries/activitystream/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> activitystreams
    started when seeing all streams, feeds, etc. on the web<br />
    ... RSS and Atom as the data input to build the streams<br />
    ... rich stream / how to understand it<br />
    ... need more experssive formats than RSS / Atom<br />
    ... researched what kind of activities / verbs were used<br />
    ... extension to the Atom format<br />
    ... transfor AtomXML to a JSON representation to be used in
    opensocial<br />
    ... next opensocial version - much richers</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; -&gt; eg <a href=
    "http://groups.google.com/group/activity-streams/browse_thread/thread/16c570492e74afa5">
    http://groups.google.com/group/activity-streams/browse_thread/thread/16c570492e74afa5</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> aggregating,
    filtering, merging, ...<br />
    ... activities from several sources<br />
    ... move opensocial activity streams<br />
    ... verb URIs, JSON representation<br />
    ... compatibility between different initiatives<br />
    ... myspace is using it</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    ask re atom/json design</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://feedproxy.cliqset.com/">http://feedproxy.cliqset.com/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> issues coming up to have
    a JSON design<br />
    ... noticed similar things on portablecontacts<br />
    ... merging practices ?<br />
    ... particular JSON / XML expressions</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> not a dev. but
    understands (UI and design background)<br />
    ... yet, biggest issue is to get the XML schema to JSON</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; yes!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; JSON issues with
    namespaces...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> does not deal with
    namespaces properly</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; This is a very
    interesting blog post:</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/11/16/the-death-of-the-url/">http://factoryjoe.com/blog/2009/11/16/the-death-of-the-url/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Death of the
    URL</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> specifying
    expressive JSON activity stream API in opensocial<br />
    ... not worrying to much on extensions</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; that's the main
    problem with JSON: <a href=
    "http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/the_limitations_of_json">http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/the_limitations_of_json</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> issues also heard
    from the PortableContact people<br />
    ... some efforts needed<br />
    ... 2 important things</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; what is needed is a
    JSON rdf format</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; in RDF scene,
    there's still (hopefully) work done mapping RDF over to JSON is
    some standardized way...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> straughtforward way
    of expressing the activity mode<br />
    ... + schema for expressing these things<br />
    ... use the same URI to identify the different verbs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; verb
    proliferation....</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; sounds like you could
    use a verb taxonomy</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Sounds like the
    owl:sameAs problem...</p>

    <p class='phone'><a href=
    "http://milanstankovic.org/opo-actions/specs/2009/OPO-Actions-20090501/">
    http://milanstankovic.org/opo-actions/specs/2009/OPO-Actions-20090501/</a>
    also related to the topic</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i would look at
    wordnet, and at Levin's verb book</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; I liked <a href=
    "http://groups.google.com/group/activity-streams/msg/3ecd9a340dbc730c">
    http://groups.google.com/group/activity-streams/msg/3ecd9a340dbc730c</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> use the same terminology
    (challenge) but gives opportunity</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; "As long as proper
    research and documentation is done, anyone can implement
    whatever verbs they want to; that's why they're URIs! "</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; Levin's verb
    categories are in the public</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; has he heard of
    Levin's verbs?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>rreck:</cite> any reference for that
    ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; yes one second</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> high adoption</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; subject-verb-object
    model</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> and rapid one</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; to me, very similar
    to RDF.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; yet because's
    Atom.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; Levin verb index
    -&gt; <a href=
    "http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/levin.html">http://www-personal.umich.edu/~jlawler/levin.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> make think of RDF
    modeling (in terms of subjct-verb-object</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; they are linked to
    the table of contents which "someone" needs to type in</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> any relationship between
    activity streams and RDF ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/activitystreams/activityschema">
    http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/activitystreams/activityschema</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> activity schema</p>

    <p class='phone'>thanks rreck</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i have typed that TOC
    in</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; schema -&gt;
    <a href="http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/activitystreams/activityschema">
    http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/activitystreams/activityschema</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> how do we keep track when
    adding more verbs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/Process">http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/Process</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> bridge efforts
    between different groups</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I admit I was
    surprised to see the adoption was so rapid, given the data
    model seems very similar to RDF.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> different names to
    describe things</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Which has had
    historical issues with rapid adoption :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> more likely to go
    and implement their own version</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; on Atom and RDF,
    there is the Atom OWL ontology: <a href=
    "http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2006-06-06/AtomOwl.html">http://bblfish.net/work/atom-owl/2006-06-06/AtomOwl.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> looked at the
    patterns<br />
    ... extracted best practices</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; so it should be
    easy to add activity streams to the transform</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> turneed into a
    solution that everyone can adopt with minimal effort</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; everyone was
    already using Atom feeds...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Hmm...looks like a
    GRDDL for ActivityStreams could be in order.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> friendfeed.
    facebook parse the feeds in a very specific way<br />
    ... location service sharing<br />
    ... goal was to look at what feeds publisher are doing<br />
    ... what the actor / object are<br />
    ... challenge: what the verb is<br />
    ... update the feeds in a non-introsive way<br />
    ... 10/15 minutes to get a feed<br />
    ... if already publishing atom<br />
    ... alignement is as lightweight as possible<br />
    ... more pragmatic that data purist<br />
    ... anyone that adapt the format is able to showcase the feed
    better than any competitor<br />
    ... market place with a desire to solve that problem<br />
    ... e.g. myspace wants to get activities from different
    sources<br />
    ... plaxo, etc. all duplicating the work<br />
    ... opportunity for standardization<br />
    ... same as with openid<br />
    ... relationship to the RDF triples<br />
    ... in general the triple approach is very compelling<br />
    ... you can convert in any format once you have the data<br />
    ... start with something easy<br />
    ... facebook and myspace and youtube onboard<br />
    ... look at what can be done with the data in novel ways</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> close fit regarding data
    formats<br />
    ... interesting would be to look at activity streams
    mappins</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Ron?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; you cant hear me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; ok you cant hear
    me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; darn</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; we can hear
    you</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (re rdf, some
    colleagues in the notube project did do an rdf mapping, and
    compare/contrast w/ rdf version of activity/event schemas)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> transform Atom into
    RDF<br />
    ... worked on the atom syntax spec<br />
    ... spend some time to create an ontology for taht<br />
    ... one key element that may have slow doen the RDF adoption
    inthat realm<br />
    ... apart the tools not being there<br />
    ... triples and metadata about the content itself<br />
    ... need to distinguish what the content is about<br />
    ... merge from different sources</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; So there's some
    issues with regards lack of context/named graphs in rdf
    here.</p>

    <p class='phone'>whos speaking ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; "a financial
    interest in verbs" ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; yes, the man does
    have financial interest in verbs :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>rreck:</cite> where to find verbs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt;
    "unnatural"</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; ah, i heard
    financial too</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>rreck:</cite> categorisation of verbs,
    broken into categories<br />
    ... similar syntactially, etc.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I mean, you know,
    people do get paid for computational linguistics.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; SIOC helps handle
    this distinction -- between "document description" (i.e., file
    metadata) and "content description" (i.e., named entities used
    in text *within* the file)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>rreck:</cite> wordnet is one of them</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; Container is the key
    element</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>rreck:</cite> will contact offline</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/Process">http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/Process</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> posted a link to
    the activity streams process</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; so just to
    summarize what I was saying above: the content of an atom
    format is something that has to end up being mapped to a Graph.
    So before SPARQL was out and named graphs were well accepted in
    the semweb community, it was a bit diffiuclt to express this in
    RDF.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> important thing:
    about interoperability<br />
    ... communication between one and other</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; non-thinking
    entities --- companies or computers?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> want to avoid
    people inventing new verbs again and again<br />
    ... wht types of activities are needed from a publisher point
    of view<br />
    ... to communicate</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; So, maybe one way
    to say it, the verbs we are interested are "domain-specific" to
    the social web.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> interested in
    getting a core set of verbs to begin with<br />
    ... as anytime a new verb is added. lots of people are required
    to use them<br />
    ... URIs for new verbs<br />
    ... registries of verbs<br />
    ... synonyms can be done later on<br />
    ... very obvisou verbs of the social web<br />
    ... as standards as possible<br />
    ... and then grows from there</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    ask re TV viewing feed examples (xbmc/boxee etc)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> starting with 40
    verbs (approx.)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/activitystreams/activityschema">
    http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/activitystreams/activityschema</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> the one seen used
    on the web</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/activitystreams/activityschema">
    http://martin.atkins.me.uk/specs/activitystreams/activityschema</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Ack, chrismessina
    beat me :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; ;) sorry!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; danbri have you seen
    <a href=
    "http://testtubetelly.channel4.com/?">http://testtubetelly.channel4.com/?</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/Verb-Mapping">http://wiki.activitystrea.ms/Verb-Mapping</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> verb-mapping<br />
    ... took a lok at the verbs visible on a site<br />
    ... evaluated the existing formats<br />
    ... then take the verbs and the way they describe the
    activities</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; Test Tube Telly is a
    good use case for Activity Streams and TV.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> a few classes of
    activities<br />
    ... and mapped them with the existing<br />
    ... boxee.tv<br />
    ... few unknown verbs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; boxee.tv</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> work with the
    community to see how you implement it is ok<br />
    ... then implements</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; boxee.tv</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; does anyone else
    think SKOS when they read verb mapping?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> create ver,
    document, implement, get feedback</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Yes, SKOS could be
    useful here,</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; +1 SKOS</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> disambiguation ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; ok, got to go to
    another conf call.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i would love to show
    a interoperable approach for verb mapping using skos</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; but it would be
    useful to have the vocabulary of activity streams published as
    RDF linked data</p>

    <p class='phone'>-1 for skos for verbs (while the SKOS
    properties are useful)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; which of course would
    mean lots of this information is available out of the box</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; and have that
    mapped in such as a way that it can fit in with AtomOWL
    transform...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; examples of what
    comes out of boxee: <a href=
    "http://twitter.com/bandriball">http://twitter.com/bandriball</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> some can use
    microformats, wikipedia page, etc.<br />
    ... author, title and body content<br />
    ... then enclosure, but pretty weak<br />
    ... adding the actor of the post</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; eg <a href=
    "http://twitter.com/bandriball/status/5148136281">http://twitter.com/bandriball/status/5148136281</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> adding some
    microformats in the content to parse the object and iunderstand
    what it is<br />
    ... great problem to address then<br />
    ... but need to get the issue first</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; pchampin, you wanted
    to ask a very basic question about cliqset</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite> cliqset: generate
    activity streams from different sources<br />
    ... to what extent do you get the correct verb from these
    sources ?<br />
    ... feed reformating or getting information from the site using
    API ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://feedproxy.cliqset.com/">http://feedproxy.cliqset.com/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; it *is* great
    :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> consume the feed
    from the provider<br />
    ... hope that richer amount of information will come from the
    sources<br />
    ... more precise verbs that show up in the feed<br />
    ... or richer object definition<br />
    ... define tthe target of an activity<br />
    ... e.g. adding flickr to a set in flickr<br />
    ... tracking a photo album, etc.<br />
    ... as opposed to follow each individual picture</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; thanks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; in my experience
    shame doesnt work</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt;
    buddypress.org</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> would like to get
    buddypress adopt activiystreams<br />
    ... open source PHP activity streams parser would be
    great<br />
    ... convincing people to adopt it</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://dev.opera.com/libraries/activitystream/">http://dev.opera.com/libraries/activitystream/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; chrismessina, you're
    saying there's no good opensrc php consumer, yet?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; there is
    not</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> underlying code /
    libraries should accelerate the adoption</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; ok, maybe i know a
    funded project that might help there ... (www.notube.tv) ... do
    you have a requirements spec?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; labourML?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Sounds british
    :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://userlabor.org/">http://userlabor.org/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Will note
    that...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> other examples of
    formats for activities</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://socialdesktop.org/">http://socialdesktop.org/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> social
    desktop<br />
    ... linkedin</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Well, just looking
    for other tech in the same space, but it's clear
    activitystreams seems to have the momentum...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> none of them is
    moving forward interoperable standards</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; also some discussion
    around xmpp community for activity streams over xmpp ---
    <a href=
    "http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/social/2009-April/000536.html">
    http://mail.jabber.org/pipermail/social/2009-April/000536.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> shoudl be
    interoperable, shoud be open<br />
    ... role of W3C: valuable to provide spotlight on this
    work<br />
    ... thinking about the role W3C plays in incubating
    things<br />
    ... boards member of the OpenWeb fundation<br />
    ... as it was hard to understand how W3C coudl bootstrap such
    grassroots projects<br />
    ... take about 1.5 years / 2 years<br />
    ... but becoming a defacto standard<br />
    ... while working independantly from a standard body</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I think it's a
    great amount of success...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> like to see other
    similar efforts succeed as well<br />
    ... based on the work theyre doing</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (+1 to all that)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> interested in how
    this kind of work can be supported</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> would like to outline
    some kind of plan<br />
    ... should W3C provide infrastructure<br />
    ... what are the pros and cons<br />
    ... IP policies, etc.<br />
    ... transition period, time for suggestions<br />
    ... looking for suggestions</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; linkedin's
    verbs: <a href=
    "http://developer.linkedin.com/docs/DOC-1006">http://developer.linkedin.com/docs/DOC-1006</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> how W3C can help such
    efforts</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; brainstorming about
    how to open up W3C and get relationships with all other
    foundations and standards bodies would be useful.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> W3C key goal is to let the
    web open</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; and what resources
    the W3C has to offer the wider community</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (mentioned <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/">http://www.w3.org/2009/11/TPAC/</a>
    )</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> XG process started few years
    ago</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; it's just kinda
    unclear what the wider community wants.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> time for starting working on
    such topics<br />
    ... lots of XG now</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; wider = everyone
    working to keep the web open</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> question shoud be how can
    W3C facilitate such efforts</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> DISO and activity
    projects done on spare time<br />
    ... did them as believe in Open Web<br />
    ... find things to build better and richer solutions<br />
    ... compagnies that have IP who decided that they come together
    to advance the set of things<br />
    ... avoid to much fragmentation of a market<br />
    ... Web is a more fluid place, subject to changes<br />
    ... very essential to come up with patterns that are easy to
    adopt / use<br />
    ... to drive interoperable standards</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; it's more a w3c
    observation</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> bring new protocols
    but make sure to ensure the openess<br />
    ... standards bodies created solutions for large compagnies</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Good point re ramp
    for smaller projects</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    mention w3c process is in-scope</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; we need some sort
    of relationship re smaller bodies.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; and now the massive
    amount of creativity which is in the grassroots</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; (and then
    relationships with larger bodies like IETF)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; you broke up a little
    danbri</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; getting late,
    guys</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; we need to (cut the
    song short and) close this meeting!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; basically W3C can be
    what we make of it, ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; we'll close after
    question from tpa</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> openess in an
    networked world</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; but feel free to
    exist..</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; free to exit.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> W3C becomes an
    engie for interoperability of open technologies</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; one of the issues re
    w3c membership model, is that it becomes hard to structure w3c
    so pressure is put on its members to play well w/
    standards...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; tim?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (because they're
    supplying $)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> efforts like openid and
    oauth where supported by people working on the Web<br />
    ... much more idealist process<br />
    ... W3C has not doing that so far<br />
    ... q on activity streams<br />
    ... lots of discussion on publishing and having people on
    boards</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; (re individuals vs
    employers, ... often people do have relevant employers, but
    it's the individual who is the driver, and the employer
    situation is often damage control, ie. making sure they behave
    well re patents)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> but cannot find lot of
    applications</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> challenging in
    terms of adoption<br />
    ... motivate the consumer<br />
    ... then producers<br />
    ... chicken and egg problem</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I imagine Chrome
    will take it up...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>chrismessina:</cite> windows live
    support<br />
    ... if you create a widget, it produces a stream<br />
    ... friends are able to subscribe<br />
    ... P2P process to the browsers<br />
    ... larger publishers (youtube, NYT)<br />
    ... more a timing issue<br />
    ... once spec will be out, hope to see rapid adoption<br />
    ... twitter introduced an important verb: to follow<br />
    ... can follow people whatever client is used</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; we dont' have any
    clear answers quite yet</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Chris Messina
    Prime</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; thanks Chris</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>chrismessina</cite>&gt; thanks
    all!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; thanks!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; thanks :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1 thanks Chris!</p>

    <p class='phone'>thanks!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Adam</cite>&gt; we will be adding it
    to our existing activity streams</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Adam</cite>&gt; inside Boeing</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Meeting
    Adjourned.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; bye all</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; thx</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; thx</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; AlexPassant:, hhalpin
    there were some typos / misunderstanding in the writeup of my
    last comment</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; How should I propose
    edits to that :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; tpa, just rewrite
    the comment here</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; and i'll fix it
    when I clean up the meeting.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; tpa: efforts like
    openid and oauth where supported by people working on the Web
    but not necessarily in the right field so they tend to
    participate as individuals. W3C should probably have a clear
    policy of allowing individuals to join to attract the same kind
    of crowd and efforts</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; excellent.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; we should have a
    telecon on W3C process and W3C role once we have some strawman
    proposals.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; tpa: also, have a more
    iterative process, like those groups, which historically the
    W3C has not been good at.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; hhalpin: yes, that'd be
    great</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; I think there are some
    clear point to report back on</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; but we're so in the
    middle of them, we don't necessarily see them</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; trackbot, end
    meeting</p>
  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> (2 weeks) hhalpin
  explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases (2
  weeks) [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tanglade to tag
  existing stories [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action11">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action11</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> (2 weeks)
  hhalpin explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for
  usecases (2 weeks) [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> adam to take
  on corporate story [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> bblfish to
  merge Family and Group access usecases (2 weeks) [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> bblfish to
  relabel data protection use case to be about controlled access
  and takedown to data "about" you (2 weeks) [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to
  find someone from Opera to talk Widgets (2 weeks) [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action12">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to
  try to get TimBL to either talk or write-up his use-cases
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action13">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action13</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> oshani to
  reframe the geolocation/intent/portability (2 weeks) [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> rreck to
  flesh out anonymous usecase connecting to multiple identies and
  null provenance (rreck) [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  <strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> (2 weeks) adam
  to write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  <strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> cperey to take
  business narrative [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  <strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> cperey to take
  business narrative [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2009/12/02 17:33:25 $
  </address>

  <div class="diagnostics">
    <hr />

    <h2>Scribe.perl diagnostic output</h2>[Delete this section
    before finalizing the minutes.]<br />
    <pre>
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.135  of Date: 2009/03/02 03:52:20
Check for newer version at <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/">http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/</a>

Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00)

Succeeded: s/extend/extent/
Succeeded: s/temr/term/
Succeeded: s/tome/some/
Succeeded: s/boxy (?)/boxee.tv/
Succeeded: s/port/post/
Succeeded: s/effots/efforts/
Succeeded: s/straman/strawman/
Found Scribe: AlexPassant
Found ScribeNick: AlexPassant
Default Present: +39.011.228.aaaa, +049172247aabb, hhalpin, +1.774.811.aacc, +1.781.273.aadd, claudio, MacTed, +7.970.94.aaff, rreck, AlexPassant, tpa
Present: +39.011.228.aaaa +049172247aabb hhalpin +1.774.811.aacc +1.781.273.aadd claudio MacTed +7.970.94.aaff rreck AlexPassant tpa
Found Date: 02 Dec 2009
Guessing minutes URL: <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html</a>

WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: (2 weeks) hhalpin explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases (2 weeks) [recorded in <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]


WARNING: No person found for ACTION item: (2 weeks) hhalpin explain to henry and oshani doc editing process for usecases (2 weeks) [recorded in <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/12/02-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]

People with action items: adam bblfish danbri hhalpin oshani rreck tanglade

</pre>[End of <a href=
"http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> diagnostic output]
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