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  <title>Social Web Incubator Group -- 06 May 2009</title>
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  <h1>Social Web Incubator Group</h1>

  <h2>06 May 2009</h2>

  <p><a href=
  'http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html'>Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-irc">IRC
  log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="attendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>

      <dd> Wonsuk, HaoWang, Linas, pchampin,
      tinkster,  karl, jsalvachua, Dom,
      danbri, Phil_Archer,
      hhalpin, wonsuk,
      renato,  mischat_, BenG, AdamB,
      FabGandon, DKA, tpa, jeffs,
      petef, cperey, HenryStory, oshani,
      Hakan, AlexKorth, Miquel, JuanCarlos
      MacTed, rreck, yuk, MaciejJanik</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dt>Chair</dt>

      <dd>Dan_Appelquist</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>DanBri, PhilA</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li>
      <a href="#agenda">Topics</a>

      <ol>
        <li><a href="#item01">Introductions</a></li>

        <li><a href="#item02">Charter review and
        deliverables</a></li>
      </ol>
    </li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexKorth</cite>&gt; we're starting up
    just in time: Facebook Shuts Down RSS Feed App <a href=
    "http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_shuts_down_rss_feed_app.php">
    http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/facebook_shuts_down_rss_feed_app.php</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Wow.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexKorth</cite>&gt; so I guess it's
    one of our main challenges to propose a solution to combine
    openness/accessibility and privacy</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; well an atom
    feed with some auth may help to substitute, but i think
    Facebook wont agree, AlexKorth</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> i am one of the
    cochairs<br />
    ... i sent intro to the @@url<br />
    ... along with danbri and hhalpin who are also on the line</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; Scribe: DanBri</p>

    <p class='phone'>(gsm noise interference ... pls move it away
    ...)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; ScribeNick:
    DanBri</p>

    <p class='phone'>please be scrupulous bout muting yourself
    while not speaking</p>


    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> and as a matter of
    housekeeping, we have an irc channel that goes along with most
    calls</p>

    <p class='phone'>this more than a nice-to-have it is an
    essetnial part of all w3c calls</p>

    <p class='phone'>reason is that the minutes are taken into the
    irc channel</p>

    <p class='phone'>this means that ... you can watch the minutes
    being taken as it happens</p>

    <p class='phone'>you can correct, add, ... if you are
    mis-scribed you can correct that</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> strawpolls can be taken
    in irc, etc</p>

    <p class='phone'>so participating in the irc channel, for those
    not familiar, it might sound a bit nerdy</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> "well i'll just dial-in"
    ,...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> but instead i really
    encourage you to all get used to IRC<br />
    ... you will get a much richer experience out of it</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> interact in a bettter
    way</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> as we have limited time
    and a large group<br />
    ... we will go with harry's agenda<br />
    ... (see topic in irc)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>:)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; (It's the channel
    topic too.)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; Agenda: <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> kicking right off...
    with introductions<br />
    ... for those of you who joined after i said this: please be
    scrupulous about muting<br />
    ... even if you don't think you need to<br />
    ... all that noise adds up!</p>

    <p class='phone'>brief intros:</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; The Zakim
    commands are here : <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot">http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>roll call, ... brief intros ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> yes, that's what i meant
    ... BRIEF!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; Seems 314 could be
    Bristol.</p>

    <p class='phone'>hi henry</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexKorth</cite>&gt; sorry, I am
    skyping in from portugal. I dont know who I am ;)</p>

    <p class='phone'>one thing we can do is "mute xyz" or "who is
    speaking?", but both are a bit invasive</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; is petef on the
    call?</p>

    <p class='phone'>(I am not going to scribe this "who is
    1.123.456 etc... discussion :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; for those who
    don't have a client we may suggest <a href=
    "http://mibbit.com/chat/">http://mibbit.com/chat/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Linas</cite>&gt; Hi, I am Linas from
    Alcatel-Lucent Bell Labs Research in France</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>BenG</cite>&gt; BenG = Benjamin Nguyen
    from UVSQ</p>

    <p class='phone'>(for roll call, if you have urls to your
    mailing list intro that would be great for the minutes)</p>

    <h3 id="item01">Introductions</h3>

    <p class='phone'>Roll call:</p>

    <p class='phone'>Jed ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/51ED3028-9740-4FF0-8D71-0ECDAEB1E31C@capturagroup.com">
    Jed's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> works for small
    consultancy in san diego, ... social media, .gov, ...<br />
    ... internet policy in washington folk, a consultant not a
    policy maker, staying abreast of standards, ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Marie:</cite> ... UPC from Barcelona</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Oshani:</cite></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/a477174c0905031049k562eec88m65ab60c7de28e316@mail.gmail.com">
    Oshani's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Oshani:</cite> student from MIT, work on
    issues related to privacy and accountability on the Web.
    Interested in applying research we're doing to social web
    related activities in the XG</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/4A0163D7.5070209@champin.net">Pierre-Antoine
    Champin's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>pchampin:</cite></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; +1 Henry Story
    present</p>

    <p class='phone'>pchampin, Pierra-Antoine Champin, associate
    professor in france see url <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/4A0163D7.5070209@champin.net">http://www.w3.org/mid/4A0163D7.5070209@champin.net</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Miquel:</cite> ... from ... research
    labs in germany, heidelberg<br />
    ... working on distrib id management, ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Rreck:</cite> Ron Reck ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/49FEB2EE.5040008@rrecktek.com">Ronald
    Reck's intro</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; my homepage
    <a href="http://fabien.info">http://fabien.info</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>fabien gandon: inria research, fr</p>

    <p class='phone'>see homepage :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009Apr/0010.html">
    DKA's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>DFA, Daniel Appelquist ... vodafone ac rep,
    co-chair, ...</p>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0018.html">
    PhilA's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Phil Archer (PhilA): in this xg i represent
    greek national centre for research in athems</p>

    <p class='phone'>athens</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> interested in social
    network openness, but also privacy concerns</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; PhilA wants to
    grab our data but keep his private ;-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/8F39651CFAD94556B0E0805232545C03@T60">Christine
    Perey's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Christen Perey (cperey), mobile social
    networking consultant, co-chaired barcelona workshop</p>

<p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href="http://www.w3.org/mid/2298D8C21EBED34EB68E560AFE7B6288031C31F3@FRVELSMBS13.ad2.ad.alcatel.com">Linas' intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Linas:</cite> from Lucent/Bell ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Linas:</cite> social comms dept<br />
    ... bridging social nets analysis world with telecoms world</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>BenG:</cite> from Uni Versailles in
    Frane</p>

    <p class='phone'>France</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0005.html">
    Ben's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>DB, sociology, ... working with w3c
    standards</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Jeffs:</cite> RIT ... centre for
    handheld web, ... w3c ac rep, ... also on mobile web
    group<br />
    ... here to do research on the networks expressed in this data,
    and the issues around privacy</p>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/4A017D43.5010401@uni-koblenz.de">Maciej's
    intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>MicieJanik ... [missed that, desktop problem
    here, sorry]</p>

    <p class='phone'>(MaciejJanik, could you type your comment here
    please? sorry i missed it)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0007.html">
    Renato's introduction</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Renato:</cite> from NICTA,
    Australia<br />
    ... interest in interop amongst social networks and chair
    policy languages xg</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; Renato's intro
    <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0008.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0008.html</a></p>


    <p class='phone'>Peter Ferne (petef): (postponed)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/A32A1275-82E4-405B-8D7F-DA2C47996832@jivatechnology.com">
    Peter Ferne's intro</a></p>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; melvin c</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; I don't think he's
    on the call?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Melvster:</cite> (not on call)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; sorry, im not on
    the call, just lurking, is that ok?</p>

    <p class='phone'>davide sent regrets, in a conflicting
    telecon</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; petef is on irc but
    mysteriously muted</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; and on the call</p>

    <p class='phone'>Caribou is Carine from W3C; she sends
    regrets</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MaciejJanik</cite>&gt; danbri - my
    intro: I'm from IsWeb group, University of Koblenz, Germany.
    Interested in trust and privacy issues in social web. Working
    on WeKnowIt project.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Harry Halpin:</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> uni edinburgh<br />
    ... w3c fellow</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0000.html">
    Harry's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> working on social web,
    rdf, info retrieval technologies</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Dom:</cite> ... cochaired the barcelona
    workshop, work on w3c's mobile web initiative</p>

    <p class='phone'>alex korth</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> berlin germany</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0003.html">
    Alex Korth's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>privacy issues, social media</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>TPA:</cite> Tim A....</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0010.html">
    Tim Anglade's intro</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.la-grange.net/karl/">http://www.la-grange.net/karl/</a>
    <a href=
    "http://twitter.com/karlpro">http://twitter.com/karlpro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>TPA:</cite> representing AF83</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0026.html">
    Karl's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Karl Dubost: social network guinea pig ... ...
    giving ppl choice about their data</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; Toby Inkster -
    <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0010.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0010.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Toby Inkster ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> see intro url<br />
    ... involved in microformats, foaf+ssl, libre.fm</p>

    <p class='phone'>Adam B: with Boeing, lead architect, product
    manager for an inhouse social tool</p>

    <p class='phone'>interested in interop between this and
    external systems, customers/suppliers etc</p>

    <p class='phone'>security issues etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0034.html">
    DanBri's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>me:</cite> foaf etc</p>

    <p class='phone'>Alex Passant, ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0020.html">
    Alexandre Passant's intro</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; alex is in the
    SPARQL WG</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mattl:</cite></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; mattl is Matt Lee,
    libre.fm</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/49F70D2E.5050405@cnuk.org">Matt Lee's
    intro</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; Don't think he's
    on the call.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>wonsuk:</cite></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/B4EAD1122C31304099A5CDEA5447210F01908AE4@email2">
    Wonsuk's intro</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; i think i didnt
    unmuted me: <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0034.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0034.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0022.html">
    Howard's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Hao Wang:</p>

    <p class='phone'>from China, ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; i have yet to
    introduce</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Mischat:</cite> Mischa Tuffield ...</p>

    <p class='phone'>currently working with Garlik</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>yuk</cite>&gt; i joined late, haven't
    introduce myself yet</p>

    <p class='phone'>interested in distrib social network,
    privacy</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/mid/7E13617D-C3F7-4BB9-A172-73BDDF9B414A@garlik.com">
    Mischa's intro</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>an online identity protection project</p>

    <p class='phone'>prev at southampton, ... interest in
    lifeblogging</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; touche</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://mmt.me.uk/">http://mmt.me.uk/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-social-web-talk/2009May/0030.html">
    Hans' intro</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.memoriesforlife.org/">http://www.memoriesforlife.org/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; Henry Story, work
    for Sun Microsystems as Social Web Architect. Co-authored this
    paper for spot2009 "FOAF+SSL: RESTful Authentication for the
    Social Web" <a href=
    "http://bblfish.net/tmp/2009/05/spot2009_submission_15.pdf">http://bblfish.net/tmp/2009/05/spot2009_submission_15.pdf</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; I am just cycling
    from France to Germany (anyone know how to get good european
    mobile data prices?). Got a connection in a McDonald's sorry
    for silly music playing in background. Blog: <a href=
    "http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish">http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>Henry Story, representing Sun</p>

    <p class='phone'>foaf+ssl</p>

    <p class='phone'>Ted (macted) from openlink</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> open connectivity, access
    to information<br />
    ... open protocols and formats, while preserving security in an
    organic sense<br />
    ... integral to the foaf+ssl discussions, also oauth</p>

    <p class='phone'>? from sony erricson</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; FOAF and then some -
    <a href=
    "http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/person/tthibodeau">http://myopenlink.net/dataspace/person/tthibodeau</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> mainly interested in
    mobile aspects, esp trust aspects</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0014.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-xg-socialweb/2009May/0014.html</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> this is quite a diverse group<br />telecoms, web, semweb, indusrty , startups,
    academia, ...<br />
    ... app developers, ...
    others</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; Alexandre
    Passant from DERI Galway (<a href=
    "http://deri.ie)">http://deri.ie)</a> interested in Social Web
    and Semantic Web interactions (semantic blogging, semantic
    wikis, etc). Co-author of the SIOC ontology, MOAT project,
    worked on various applications such as foafmap. blogging at
    <a href="http://apassant.net">http://apassant.net</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> challenge is to identify areas where we can
    make a difference<br /> ... leverage, synergy etc :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; within the WG,
    I'm interested in portability of social data and mappings
    between different formats that aim to achieve this goal - as
    well as privcay</p>

    <h3 id="item02">Charter review and deliverables</h3>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> we need to review the
    initial deliverables we have in the charter, expectations
    etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>yuk</cite>&gt; hello i didn't
    introduce myself yet, if still possible</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> we created a 2h slot but
    generally that's probably too much</p>

    <p class='phone'>figure out if we want weekly vs biweekly
    ...</p>

    <p class='phone'>Harry wanted to talk about invited guests,
    ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter">Social Web
    Incubator Group's charter</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>re deliverables, ... <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter#deliverables">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter#deliverables</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; DanBri, go over
    charter?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; scribe: PhilA</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DanBRi:</cite> Can I bounce this to
    Harry?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DB:</cite> In some of the early drafts
    of the charter, there were a lot of deliverables and I argued
    for tem to be reduced in number</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/charter#deliverables">
    Proposed deliverables for the group</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; "A use-case and
    requirement document that describes a number of real-world use
    cases and determines if solutions can be built on top of
    existing standards, including standards outside the W3C, and
    help determine what other standards may be needed. Use-cases
    will guide the requirements needed for future work."</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; and</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; Better to deliver
    more than we promise than vice versa,</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DB:</cite> If there is the capacity to
    produce those (dropped) delievrables, then let's do it</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; "A document that
    describes how diverse, ongoing work in this area (outside and
    within the W3C) currently relates to the Social Web's future.
    This description of existing, active and past work, both on an
    industry level and a technical level, will seek to explain how
    the W3C and community at large may leverage the best of breed
    and highlight possible weaknesses where further work or new
    work would be beneficial to the Social Web."</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> I think it's important that
    everything that happens is because people want it to
    happen<br />
    ... There is a low engagement from W3C itself<br />
    ... Members of the WG do the work, noone else...<br />
    ... We need editors</p>


    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> Echoing DanBri's statement -
    more output may affect the quality of the output</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> You're more influential if
    you're an editor</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>inserted</cite>&gt; ScribeNick:
    danbri</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> given finite time
    ...<br />
    ... we need to produce high quality deliverables, that give w3c
    an idea of a clear role for its work in this area</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; ScribeNick: danbri</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>Harry:</cite> so lets look at scheduling
    strategy<br />
    ... productive telecons with 33 people are difficult!<br />
    ... once we know the participation, we can look at task forces
    aroudn topics or deliverables</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; task forces strike me
    as a good idea for focusing on deliverables</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1 use cases</p>

    <p class='phone'>looking at what we have listed for delivs,
    fairly std set ... a use case and requirements doc ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; +1 Use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; +1 usecase</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jeffs</cite>&gt; +1 use-case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>oshani</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>miquel</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>wonsuk</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jed</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>yuk</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexKorth</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>2nd doc, more technical document, ... perhaps
    broader doc, than the main final report ...."details document",
    ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AdamB</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1 details
    document</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> lowerlevel document and a
    higherlevel document</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; [I'm interested in
    "user stories" more than "use cases" :) ]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jeffs</cite>&gt; +1 use-case
    editor</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; +1 use case editor</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; +1 use case
    editor</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; +1 use case
    editor</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; woo hoo!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1 details
    document editor</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Linas</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='phone'>Now for 2nd doc (technical doc) ... how many
    ppl in being editors?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1 different
    docs</p>

    <p class='phone'>(possibly broken into diff docs)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; +1 details
    document editor (but only if it's split up)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; +1 technical document
    editor (but not two at the same time)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; I'm up for editing
    any doc for which I am competent!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> do you expect to see use
    cases translated into technical arch?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; (which is a small
    subset of the possibles of course)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> come up with a strawman
    arch for the social web?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; +1 technical
    document</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> could include some of
    the enumeration of the different bits of work already going on
    in the community?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AdamB</cite>&gt; +1 technical
    document</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MaciejJanik</cite>&gt; +1 technical
    document</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> including work on a kind
    of strawman architecture?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> yes, ... you'd want to
    have strawman architectures but aslo as danbri points out
    existing architectures...<br />
    ... look realistically at the industry forces</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>wonsuk</cite>&gt; +1 technical
    document</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> eg. maybe facebook don't
    want to participate, ... that's an issue but in the tech doc we
    can discuss their broad approach</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; looking at existing
    architectures keeps it real and grounds things in reality
    imho</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> and how the different
    stacks/architectures/approaches inter-relate<br />
    ... ie. some detail beyond that needed for w3c management
    report</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> it should be stated on this
    1st call that our remit is not to develop new tech but to look
    at what's out there<br />
    ... not in business in this wg of making new tech<br />
    ... referencing etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; +1 use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; its always easier to
    create a poor tool (technology) than learn a good one?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; +1 technical
    document</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> 2nd thing re deliverables
    ,...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> final report is a bit
    difficult, it isn't a details report ...</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> final report is what w3c
    should do (eg. recommend new groups)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; should be a
    state of the art for actual solutions/ architectures</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> can invite externals in to
    speak<br />
    ... see what their needs, goals etc are<br />
    ... final report will be shorter, focussed on future role of
    w3c</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jeffs</cite>&gt; charge is to "propose
    a way forward", not yet to build</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> may have more deliverables
    beyond that, but this is the core</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1 final report
    editor</p>

    <p class='phone'>can you write +1 "final report editor" in irc
    if you want to help with that</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; +1 final report
    editor</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> +1 final report ed</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; +1 final report
    editor</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    qualify that</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jed</cite>&gt; +1 final report
    editor</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; +1 final report
    editor</p>


    <p class='phone'><cite>DanBri:</cite> Although the
    group don't do tech development there's nothing to stop members
    forming ad hoc groups to go off and do something with real code
    and real tools</p>

    <p class='phone'> ... the FOAF+SSL is a
    good examppe of this</p>

    <p class='phone'> ... it doesn't
    necessarily need standardising but it's good stuff</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> re foaf+ssl, it isn't so
    much new technology, but interesting recombination</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> The FOAF+SSL is
    not really new tech, it's a combination of existing
    technologies so it's a grey area</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> or at least a grey area</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> and we can be identifying
    gaps</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1 identifying
    gaps</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> putting a stricture on
    yourself is a way to understand what the gaps are</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Linas</cite>&gt; +1 technical
    document</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; yes, I should put a
    list of gaps for foaf+ssl</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    show the notes feature</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> next charter section ...
    list of dependencies</p><a name="action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to ask for Trackbot [recorded
    in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> any additional
    dependencies?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>renato</cite>&gt; RI can do PLING</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; I'm on html5 wg</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; danbri, we could also
    make queries on the group database</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; I can do
    SPARQL; and SIOC (while Uldis Bojars and John Breslin are also
    in the XG )</p><a name="action02" id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri suggest some names/contacts for
    other group liaisons [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; maybe dom, or someone
    from the systeam, could extract the cross participation</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; steve harris may
    come to future meetings to bridge swxg and sparql wg</p>

    <p class='phone'>re invited ghuests:</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> 2 diff things to do on a
    telecon<br />
    ... 1 is make and write deliverables<br />
    ... can do that in smaller groups, eg tf-based</p>

    <p class='phone'>(mail or phone, ... whatever)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; can we go back to
    the task force documents?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> but we can take that tf
    discussion offline<br />
    ... we can maintain weekly meetings<br />
    ... but every bi-weekly we devote it to one of the groups
    listed in the dependencies<br />
    ... so that everyone can dial in and listen to how someone
    things their tech helps the social web, and how relates to
    w3c</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; apologies to the
    meeting but I have to duck out now, will catch up on the
    list</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> eg also things it might
    need help with, or not be good for</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jeffs</cite>&gt; +1 to alternate mtgs
    being devoted to hearing this, but maybe just for one cycle to
    begin with?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexKorth</cite>&gt; dedicating
    telecons to particular ongoing activities within the social web
    is a great idea!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>renato</cite>&gt; renato redialing
    (droped out)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> clear procuess for moving
    input from externals into docs</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i think sounds like a
    great idea</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> alternate weeks can be
    insider stuff, writing docs, task forces etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; +1 agrees with
    DanBri</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> good idea<br />
    ... but q of how long the calls should be<br />
    ... strawman fwd of 1h calls</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; [I think 2 hours is too
    long; 1h per week sounds good]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jeffs</cite>&gt; nothing gets done
    after an hour of a mtg</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> 1h call has to start on
    time</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; +1 one hour calls
    started on time</p>

    <p class='phone'>a 2h call is a big chunk of the day</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; it seems that a
    presentation should not last more than 30min</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>miquel</cite>&gt; +1 one hour calls
    started on time</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1 one hour</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> issue with invited speakers,
    ... getting a pipeline ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; +1 30 minutes
    presentations</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; +1 one hour</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Jed</cite>&gt; +1 hour call</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> who takes on role of getting
    them lined up</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexKorth</cite>&gt; 30 mins
    presentation + 30 mins discussion</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; Technical doc
    potential editors: jsalvachua, tinkster, karl</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; Use Case potential
    Editor: jeffs, karl, PhilA, FabGandon</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; Final report potential
    editors: cperey, tpa, danbri, tinkster, Jed, FabGandon</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> keep invite talk to 30
    mins q+a, ... rest of time for feedback, discussion etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AdamB</cite>&gt; what about 30 minutes
    presentation, 30 minutes q/a with presenter, 30 minutes group
    action discussion</p>

    <p class='phone'>yep</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; if person can send us
    stuff to read first it should be possible</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> this 1st call always going
    to be a bit tricky, as people get used to the tooling<br />
    ... use the wiki over next week<br />
    ... can use wiki to let people update and add themselves</p>

    <p class='phone'>eg. we could start with mobile and
    contexts</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; can we vote on
    speakers we think are important?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>tpa:</cite> re invited speakers, ...
    missing the point of those ...<br />
    ... sad to see us spend too much time on those<br />
    ... when could be doing research, etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; thought
    research+other work could be done on alternating weeks...</p>

    <p class='phone'>karl, yes i think so re wiki</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; my comment is that
    real work is grounding your efforts in the existing
    environment</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> incubator group is what we
    make of it...<br />
    ... curious to hear from others re invited speakers
    mechanism<br />
    ... i like it as it helps expose us to ideas outside those
    immediately recommended here<br />
    ... the real work we commit to, ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    suggest minor tweak: biweekly neednt be outsiders, but good to
    have substantive technical content periodically (biweekly fine)
    and to volunteer some pipeline</p>

    <p class='phone'> DanBRi: One reason I
    like the invited speaker idea is that W3C is often seen as the
    big slow consortium that lumbers along behind the people who
    are doing the real work.</p>

    <p class='phone'> ... That's not fair
    or true but things like OAuth, Open Social and so on are
    improtant</p>

    <p class='phone'> ... but poorly
    connected to the things that W3C does well (accessibility,
    mobile, i18n)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i agree the speaker
    effort pushes the envelope the right direction</p>

    <p class='phone'> ... it would be good
    to give other projects a way to bring them into contact with
    what W3C does well</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; We could also have
    the task forces meet weekly.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; If people think
    that biweekly doesn't give them enough "work time".</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Note that also I
    was not talking about tutorials.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; ok, if the
    information is available in advance let's regularly review it
    as ciriculum</p>

    <p class='phone'> TPA: Most of those
    people have places on the Web that people can look up. I'm not
    sure that it's a good sue of time. We need to focus our effort
    - looking at other peopkle's work is something anyone can do
    any time</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i see your point</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/01/29-oauth-minutes">OAuth Project
    Review</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; but also about the
    role of the W3C and standardization in their work.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; This is an example of
    an invited speaker who introduced the concepts of OAuth to W3C
    Staff</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; So, for example,
    tutorials on blogs and video won't talk about accessibility
    issues in OpenSocial :)</p>

    <p class='phone'> DanBri: This is not
    tuorial material. We expect everyone to be able to read up
    before hand. It's 'how does this tech relate to otehr things on
    the Web'</p>

    <p class='phone'> ... e.g. hCalendar
    had some accessibility issues</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; so maybe the forum of
    the speaker should be intended to be more interactive than
    traditional talk at you presentations</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; given the short
    time span, and the fact that we are not set out to implement
    anything, getting other experts involved to give their insight
    seems like it would be useful...</p>

    <p class='phone'> DanBri: It shouldn't
    necessarily be a regular event - that sounds like a weekly
    conference</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We
    will hold weekly hour-long calls. Every other call will be an
    "invited speaker" call where we will have at least a half-hour
    invited speaker to talk or discuss an external technology or
    project (e.g. Microformats). Speakers to be organized via
    wiki.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; lets call them
    discussions</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; +1 to Danbri's
    proposal. It helps to focus on current implementations and then
    stay connected with some commercial constraints and
    realities</p>

    <p class='phone'>propose revision, "topical discussion" rather
    than "invited speaker"; the invited person might be on the
    group or not ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; unmute me</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> but it will be a guided
    discussion with a technical theme, and the group expected to do
    their background reading 1st</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; so the speaker should
    be expected to present reading in advance</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> i'd like to see this
    invited speaker system used to track or fill-in gaps in our
    knowledge<br />
    ... not rehash things that we know well already</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; +1 no re-hashing of
    well known information</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; +1 using topical
    discussions to attract things we don't know and platform
    providers</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> to attract more platform
    providers, social networks such as facebook, myspace, ... to
    tell us what they're doing</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> yes, and we could also use
    this mechanism to bring in some of the startups in the social
    space<br />
    ... eg mobile social startups who are working on innovative
    ideas around social web, ...<br />
    ... who may be disconneted from communities of practice around
    both trad standards, but also from oauth, microformats etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +q</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> and could have as much to
    gain from getting connected here as vice-versa</p>

    <p class='phone'>so a different kind of invited speaker</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; since several of our
    orientations is toward privacy or information ownership should
    we slant discussions in that direction?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> we'll go down the lists
    from the charter, but not clear these are the ones who need to
    be invited<br />
    ... eg. we don't *need* presentations on foaf, dataportability,
    oauth, ....</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> it isn't to have tutorials
    presented, ... rather how they fit into the social web
    ecosystem ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i think we should
    vote on the topics WE all feel are relevant</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; should we ask someone
    to look into organizing the first topical discussion, and see
    whether that's worth repeating on a regular basis?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; challenging
    discussions are good</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; PhilA, you wanted to
    suggest a slight modification to the resolution</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>phila:</cite> a lot of sympathy with
    what christine says ... not being told about things we need to
    know about ,...<br />
    ... but 30 mins sounds quite a long time, ...</p>

    <p class='phone'>quite a long slot in many situations</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We
    will hold weekly hour-long calls. Every other call will be an
    "invited speaker" call where we will have at least a half-hour
    invited speaker to talk/q&amp;a or discuss an external
    technology or project (e.g. Microformats). Speakers to be
    organized via wiki.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>miquel</cite>&gt; 20min including
    discussion, then?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; perhaps timeslot
    length dependent on degree of relevence and complexity of the
    thing being discussed?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1 and the presenter
    should submit links for advanced reading</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; PROPOSED RESOLUTION: We
    will hold weekly hour-long calls.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dom:</cite> lets take a decision ... 30
    mins isn't so long</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; + 1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; karl, you wanted to
    talk about reviews by professionals</p>

    <p class='phone'>re oauth, an example topic might be: <a href=
    "http://oauth.net/advisories/2009-1">http://oauth.net/advisories/2009-1</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; 15 min makes sense.
    Depends on what the subject is. If we want to hear of people,
    but for them to see what we are doing then, 15min is much
    better 10 minutes even better, it gives the listener 50 minutes
    to see what we are doing</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>karl:</cite> review ... would be by
    professionals<br />
    ... a way to find out if what we're doing is useful. Help to
    focus on writing stuff which can be directly usable by current
    social networks.</p>

    <p class='phone'>Karl, can you scribe that, audio was bit
    muffled</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tpa</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>oshani</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>miquel</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1 for weekly 1h</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>FabGandon</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; +1 on weekly hour
    calls</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MaciejJanik</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>yuk</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; +1 weekly 1h</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    note that some of these external consultations could be purely
    by email or IRC (and that microformats people are very much not
    inclined to phone calls)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; +!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; +1 for one hour
    meetings.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hajons</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AdamB</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>wonsuk</cite>&gt; +1 on weekly hour
    calls</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> re invited speakers, i
    support the idea of trying it out, ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; is there any
    discussion with respect to who the "external groups" should be?
    Or is the current list final</p>

    <p class='phone'>how about ... <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri
    propose an external speakers process</p>

    <p class='phone'><strong class="resolution"><cite>resolution:</cite> agreed 1h weekly
    concall</strong></p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Danbri to propose an external speakers
    process to the mailing list [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> we don't have much time
    on telecons, ... so it is very important that we make the
    agenda concise, address needs of the group</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; "PROPOSAL"</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> useful if we can do as
    much as possible on the list<br />
    ... proposals can be technical, editorial, ...<br />
    ... or procedural</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; [in general, it is
    indeed a good idea to do as much work as possible on the
    mailing list, esp. on big groups like this one]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>DKA:</cite> we also talked about
    taskforces ... whether to discuss that today<br />
    ... likely we'll have some TFs ...<br />
    ... predicated on different groups of people on the group</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Perhaps people
    could send proposals out to the list?</p>

    <p class='phone'>(yup)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; we did a lot of
    thinking on task forces in February</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; can we please review
    past work on that</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>renato</cite>&gt; renato has to drop
    out now...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; [I second dom on
    working on the mailing list and not offlist through emails. It
    really helps to engage in shared work.]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cperey:</cite> [re taskforces], ... i
    think that there was a lot of effort put into thinking about
    natural taskforces ...<br />
    ... based on those at the workshop<br />
    ... re-use, or examine, the TFs that were proposed there</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; trying to find that
    link...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://esw.w3.org/topic/UnifiedSocialXG">http://esw.w3.org/topic/UnifiedSocialXG</a></p>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Linas</cite>&gt; sorry, I have really
    to leave now, will look at the minutes + mailing-list</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> in process of whittling down
    the agenda (charter? -ed) the longer list got dropped
    ....<br />
    ... but valuable work</p>

<a name=
    "action04" id="action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>scribe</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Christine send summary of the previous
    XG TF proposals to the list [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> agenda review ...<br />
    ... we've covered much of it</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> how to manage agenda for
    the next meeting?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; Can we organise
    agendas on the Wiki?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> also re docs, editing
    etc., if people want to stay on the call, we can walk through
    some of the technicalities of the wiki etc</p>

    <p class='phone'>i like idea of an agenda-fodder area of the
    wiki</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jeffs</cite>&gt; +1 to using the wiki
    to organize the agendas</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; I've not been able
    to log in to wiki</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page">Social
    Web wiki</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; what about having a
    session for those NEW TO W3C?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; we need a foaf+ssl
    enabled wiki :-)</p>

    <p class='phone'>re tutorial session, can we do that but not
    today? it coudl do with some prep i think</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>pchampin</cite>&gt; +1 foaf+ssl wiki
    :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; bblfish, I have
    FOAF+SSL+OpenID working with MediaWiki's OpenID plugin for a
    while.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; who do we email if
    our w3c login doesn't work on the wiki</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; s/have/had/
    :-(</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; PROPOSAL: Agenda
    planning on wiki</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> +1 on agenda-priming on the
    wiki</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; wiki log in</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jeffs</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; let's make sure that
    everybody can get on the wiki!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; E-mail me if your
    login doesn't work, and can look into it. Please do provide as
    much details as possible.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; ok</p>

    <p class='phone'>i get, "Login error: Incorrect password
    entered. Please try again. "</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; so that would make
    an very useful use case.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; yeah me too</p>

    <p class='phone'>and it upcases danbri to "DanBri" ...</p>

    <p class='phone'>(let's get a few people polished with the
    tools, ...)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> we should be eating our own
    dogfood</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat_</cite>&gt; foaf+ssl login to
    wiki ...</p>

    <p class='phone'>(if you know that crude phrase, "practice what
    your preach", "use the techniology you're talking about",
    etc)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; Supposedly dog
    food salesmen used to actually eat their own dogfood to
    demonstrate how good it was.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> ...to create a sense of
    community, some kind of online social community eg identi.ca,
    ... twitter-like tools ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; it would be nice if
    a blog-post summarized each meeting as well.</p>

    <p class='phone'>strawman proposal: an identi.ca server, or
    ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://identi.ca/group/swxg">http://identi.ca/group/swxg</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>i did make an identi.ca group, "socialweb" a
    while back, <a href=
    "http://identi.ca/group/socialweb">http://identi.ca/group/socialweb</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> also potential for f2f
    meeting<br />
    ... there is a planned TPAC (tech plenary and advisory cottee
    meeting) in california in November</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; so you should be
    able to use your "W3C" account and login.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; I believe it wiould
    be welcome, yes</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dom:</cite> yes, believe that will
    happen</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; TPAC2009: 2-6 November
    2009, Santa Clara Marriott, CA, USA</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> some of us could use that to
    meet f2f<br />
    ... and to engage with bay area / san fran tech scene</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; Ning and FB are among
    those that are nearby of course...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; good plan (for Nov
    face to face meeting)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> do we have f2f before
    then?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> nov is fine</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ideally, we'll have
    drafts of everything by November.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexKorth</cite>&gt; open stack, e.g.
    plaxo guys mccrea and smarr, could be invited. no, smarr talks
    to fast</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    suggest smaller ad hoc meetings could be likely, and useful</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Q: are there 2 wikis
    ? <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Main_Page</a>
    and identi.ca?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; identi.ca is not a
    wiki but a microblog (like twitter)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; DanBRi: It's quite
    likely that various members of this group will meet up during
    the year through otehr occasions</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; DKA: People should
    self-organise their own meet ups</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AdamB</cite>&gt; plaxo is located
    there as well</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; also, note that this
    IRC channel can be used also outside of teleconferences to help
    sync with others in the group</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> i suppor the idea that ppl
    within the group should self-org their own meetups, get
    togethers etc., .... part of the trend in mobile social
    networking ... is that people use the tech to more efficiently
    meet up in person</p>

    <p class='phone'>fwiw I am "danbri" on dopplr.com and happy to
    be linked to other SWXG people on that service</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; cperey, identi.ca is a
    twitter-like messenger service based on laconi.ca open platform
    developed by Evan Prodomou and Robin Millette in Montreal,
    Canada.</p><a name="action05" id="action05"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> HarryH to help debug wiki [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'>(noting that my openid setup is broken at
    moment due to hacked homepage, so i cannot log into dopplr,
    identi.ca etc :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; 140 chars</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> this week in html5 is
    quite useful</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; URI to
    summary...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; I volunteer</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; for making
    summaries</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; Yes, Harry - but it's
    usually done by the chair ;-)</p>

    <p class='phone'>( i think harary isn't talking about <a href=
    "http://lastweekinhtml5.blogspot.com/">http://lastweekinhtml5.blogspot.com/</a>
    )</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; summary on wiki,
    post uri to identi.ca</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> can we post minutes into the
    wiki?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>dom</cite>&gt; seems like an overkill
    to me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; +1 to Dom</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Well, if someone
    could post a quick summary to the wiki.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; I will create a last
    weekin social network xg</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; i think the minutes
    are the minutes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; then we can put the
    URI out.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; +1 to Dom, minutes
    look quite noisy.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA</cite>&gt; but the minutes are
    public anyway so it's copying material</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>harry:</cite> often there are breaking
    news (eg. some facebook/rss thing)<br />
    ... gather key sources (feeds etc)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Anyone wnat to
    volunteer for that?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexKorth</cite>&gt; i said that about
    facebook. i could repost my twitter stuff (@alexkorth) to
    identi.ca</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; We could do reposts
    to a page on the wiki as well...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>MacTed</cite>&gt; mailing list *far*
    preferred, to me</p>

    <p class='phone'>there's also delicious.com</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> adjourned!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; OK, it appears wiki
    has not been setup right.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Nevermind e-mailing
    me.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; It appears to have
    permissions bound not the XG participants, but to W3C members
    only.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Or perhaps even
    Team Members.</p>
    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Sorry, we asked for
    it to be bound to SWXG participants, probably a small switch is
    off somewhere...</p><a name="action06" id="action06"></a>

  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Christine send
  summary of the previous XG TF proposals to the list [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri suggest
  some names/contacts for other group liaisons [recorded in
  <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action02">
  http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Danbri to propose
  an external speakers process to the mailing list [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> HarryH to help
  debug wiki [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to ask
  for Trackbot [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/05/06-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2009/05/06 15:51:40 $
  </address>

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