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  <title>July 2004 RDF Data Access Working Group Meeting in Carlsbad,
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<a href="../../../">W3C</a> * <a href="./">RDF Data Access WG</a></div>

<h1>RDF Data Access Working Group Meeting, July 2004</h1>

<h2>hosted in Carlsbad, California by <a
href="http://www.networkinference.com/">Network Inference</a></h2>

<div style="text-align: center">
on this page: <a href="#where">Venue</a> * <a href="#who">Participants</a> *
<a href="#agenda">Agenda</a> * <a href="#min">Minutes</a> * <a
href="#rdl">Reading List</a><br />
nearby: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2003/12/swa/dawg-charter">charter</a> * <a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/">public-rdf-dawg
archive</a> * <a
href="http://www.networkinference.com/w3c/dawg/venue.html">logistics
details</a> * <a href="DesignEvaluations">Design Evaluations</a> *
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/14-dawg-irc">irc 14Jul</a>,
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc">irc 15Jul</a>,
<a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc">irc 16Jul(UTC)</a>
</div>

<p>The goals of this meeting are to:</p>
<ul>
  <li>Choose an initial design (cf <a href="DesignEvaluations">Design
  Evaluations</a>)</li>
  <li>Start collecting <a href="issues">issues</a></li>
  <li>Start test development</li>
  <li>discuss updates to <a href="UseCases">Use Cases and
  Requirements</a> based on reader feedback and WG discussions</li>
</ul>
<address>
  by Dan Connolly, chair <br />
  with thanks to the scribes: Kendall Clark, Andy Seaborne, Prud'hommeaux, Jos De Roo, Simon Raboczi<br />
  <small>$Revision: 1.37 $ of $Date: 2004/08/05 21:43:53 $ by <!-- split -->
   $Author: connolly $</small><br />
  see also: <a href="#chlog">changelog</a>
</address>

<div>
<h2 id="agenda">Agenda</h2>

<h3 id="jul14">Wed, 14 Jul</h3>
<ul>
  <li><a href="#roll">Convene, admin</a> (9am)</li>
  <li><a href="#specDev">Issue-driven, Test-driven specification development</a></li>
  <li><a href="#initdn">Initial Design positions</a></li>
  <li><a href="#qrdesigns">Non-RDQL design centers: XQuery, Rules</a></li>
  <li>lunch (1:00 to 2:30)</li>
  <li><a href="#req">Requirements</a> (2:30)</li>
  <li><a href="#objs">Objectives</a></li>
  <li>break (4:00 to 4:30)</li>
  <li><a href="#initdn2">Initial Design Positions, revisited</a></li>
  <li>stop for the day (6pm)</li>
</ul>

<h3 id="jul15">Thu, 15 Jul</h3>
<ul>
  <li>resume (9am)</li>
  <li><a href="#usecase">New Use cases (ebXML registry,
  XQuery/RDF)</a></li>
  <li>Break-outs:
  <ul>
    <li><a href="#brqlw">BRQL walkthru</a></li>
    <li><a href="#xqfa">XQuery design exploration</a></li>
  </ul></li>

  <li><a href="#ucrpub">Toward updated Use Cases and Requirements publication</a></li>
  <li><a href="#initdn3">Initial Design/Strawman query language</a></li>

  <li><a href="#protexp">Exploration of protocol designs</a></li>
  <li>Adjourn (5:30pm)</li>
</ul>
</div>

<div>
<h2 id="where">Venue</h2>

<p><img align="right" src="ftf2-img.png" alt="" />The meeting is in Carlsbad,
California. See <a
href="http://www.networkinference.com/w3c/dawg/venue.html">logistics details
from the host</a> for exact location, hotel accomodations etc. The local
organizer for this meeting is Rob Shearer, with alternative local contact Lyndi Sinclair.</p>

<p>The meeting includes some <a name="phone" id="phone">remote
participation</a> in the <a href="irc://irc.w3.org:6665/dawg">usual
#dawg IRC channel</a> and the <a
href="http://www.w3.org/Guide/1998/08/teleconference-calendar.html#s_1410">DAWG
Zakim teleconference</a>.</p>

<p><em>image details: <a href="ftf2-formal.n3">ftf2-formal.n3</a>, <a
href="Makefile">Makefile</a>, and <cite><a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0064.html">fun with people, places, and timezones</a></cite></em></p>
</div>

<div>
<h2 id="who">Participants</h2>

<p>The following <a href="./#who">members of the WG</a> attended:</p>

<ol>
  <li><a href="http://www.agfa.com">Agfa-Gevaert N. V.</a>
    <ul>
      <li>Jos <b>De Roo</b> (<a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0004.html">intro</a>.
        near <em>Bruxelles, Belgium</em>)</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li><a href="http://www.hp.com/">HP</a>
    <ul>
      <li>Andy <b>Seaborne</b> (<a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0006.html">intro</a>.
        near <tt>BRS</tt>)</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li><a href="http://www.mindlab.umd.edu/index.html">Maryland Information
    and Network Dynamics Lab at the University of Maryland</a>
    <ul>
      <li>Kendall <b>Clark</b> (<a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0045.html">intro</a>
        near <em>College Park, Maryland, USA</em>, <tt>DCA</tt>)</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li><a href="http://www.panasonic.co.jp/global/">Matsushita Electric
    Industrial Co., Ltd. (MEI)</a>
    <ul>
      <li>Yoshio <b>Fukushige</b> (<a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0138.html">intro</a>;
        near <em>Tokyo, Japan</em>)</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li><a href="http://www.networkinference.com">Network Inference</a>
    <ul>
      <li>Jeff <b>Pollock</b></li>
      <li>Rob <b>Shearer</b> (<a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0093.html">intro</a>)</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li><a href="http://www.nttinfo.ntt.jp/">Nippon Telegraph &amp; Telephone Corp. (NTT)</a>
  <ul>
    <li>Hiroyuki <b>Sato</b> (<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0049.html">intro</a>)</li>
  </ul>
  </li>
  <li><a href="http://www.tucanatech.com/">Tucana Technologies, Inc.</a>
    <ul>
      <li>Simon <b>Raboczi</b></li>
      <li>Tom <b>Adams</b> <em>partial/remote</em></li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li><a href="http://www.ilrt.bris.ac.uk/rdu/w3">University of Bristol</a>
    <ul>
      <li>Dave <b>Beckett</b> <em>partial/remote</em>(<a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0057.html">intro</a>.
        near <tt>BRS</tt>)</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li>Invited Experts
    <ul>
      <li>Howard <b>Katz</b> (<a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0219.html">intro</a>
        near <tt>YVR</tt>)</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
  <li><a href="http://www.w3.org/">W3C</a>
    <ul>
      <li>Dan <b>Connolly</b>, chair (<a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0002.html">intro</a>.
        near <tt>MCI</tt>)</li>
      <li>Eric <b>Prud'hommeaux</b>, team contact (<a
        href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JanMar/0001.html">intro</a>.
        near <tt>NRT</tt>)</li>
    </ul>
  </li>
</ol>

<p>John Bresnik and Dave Roberts of a <a
href="http://txc.spawar.navy.mil/">navy technology clearinghouse</a>
participated in the meeting as observers and shared
<a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0161.html">some thoughts</a> afterward.</p>

<p>regrets/excused:</p>
<ul>
      <li>Dirk <b>Colaert</b></li>
      <li>Alberto <b>Reggiori</b></li>
      <li>Dirk-Willem <b>van Gulik</b></li>
      <li>Bryan <b>Thompson</b></li>
      <li>Kevin <b>Wilkinson</b></li>
      <li>Jean-Fran&#xe7;ois <b>Baget</b></li>
      <li>James <b>Hendler</b></li>
      <li>Janne <b>Saarela</b></li>
      <li>Farrukh <b>Najmi</b></li>
      <li>Stephen <b>Harris</b></li>
      <li>Pat <b>Hayes</b></li>

</ul>

<p><em>of historical interest:  <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/DAWGf2f2/" >registration
form</a>.</em></p>

</div>

<div>
<h2 id="min">Minutes</h2>

<h3 id="roll">Convene, admin</h3>

<p>The meeting began with roll call; see <a href=
"#who">participants</a> above.</p>

<p><b>RESOLVED: to approve the <a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0052.html"
>6 July minutes</a> as a true record</b>.</p>

<p>Whereas the W3C Advisory Committee meeting has been scheduled for
the 1st week of December, 2004, we <b>RESOLVED to unschedule our
1-2 Dec RDF Data Access WG meeting</b>. <b>ACTION EricP</b>: find out the
schedule of the 2005 W3C tech plenary and inform the WG so that we can
plan ftf meetings after September.</p>

<h3 id="specDev">Issue-driven, test-driven specification development</h3>

<p>DanC suggested following an issue-driven specification
development process, using tests to characterize and resolve issues,
once a strawman design has been chosen. A number of risks
were discussed:</p>

<p><b>Feature creep</b>: closing issues by adding features, resulting
in an overly complex design. Test-driven development is supposed to
give us a certain amount of "design courage" to refactor the design to
maintain simplicity.</p>

<p><b>churn</b>: there is a bootstrapping problem with articulating
tests <em>in</em> the language, except some tests and new features
change the language. Tests may have to be rewritten, perhaps
repeatedly.  We can start with natural language descriptions of tests;
but eventually we'll want an automated, machine-processable test
suite, so that other folks can interact with them.</p>

<p>We'll also need a protocol testing mechanism, which may be somewhat
involved.</p>

<p>In discussion of maintenance mechanics, we noted that ericp,
yoshio, jos, dan, andy, kendall have cvs write access.</p>

<p>EricP is handling the <a href="issues">issues list</a> but he'd
like to have some help. <em>Later, KendallC expressed interest in
maintaining the issues list, provided UC&amp;R stabilizes.</em></p>

<h3 id="initdn">Initial Design positions</h3>

<p>DanC noted that the <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35463/initdn/results">initial
design straw poll</a> showed a critical mass of support for BRQL/RDQL
and invited each participant to give their position on the strawman
query language design. <em>DanC noted part way thru that the input
to the automated poll was internal to the group; WG members who
wanted their comments on the public record would need to re-iterate
them or forward them. The following notes are likely incomplete:</em></p>

<ul>
<li>RobS supported XQuery-based designs and opposed BRQL.</li>

<li>AndyS supported BRQL, arguing that XQuery-based designs leave too
much of the burden on the app developer, and don't straightforwardly
express RDF queries.</li>

<li>SimonR advocated the simple WHERE clause in RDQL.</li>
<li>JosD finds rdql/brql workable, but prefers n3ql because it's "all in triples".  Jos asked about having brql as a strawman and an n3ql serialization.</li>
<li>YoshioF supported brql and n3ql</li>
<li>HiroyukiS leaned toward brql, with some reservations related to integration with higher levels of the semantic web architecture.</li>
<li>HowardK advocated xsrql.</li>
<li>DanC supported RDQL, with its straightforward WHERE clause, argued that parts of BRQL seem to be premature standardization, but expressed confidence that WG review starting with BRQL would lead to a satisfactory result.</li>
<li>EricP expressed concerns about a false sense of familiarity among end users for a language with sql-like syntax, and about about federation tradeoffs; he
still prefers algae, finds n3ql acceptable.</li>
<li>KendallC had little to add over the comments he had submitted in the form,
and noted XQuery would be expensive to add to his implementation; argued that
when convincing real world people to use [dawg-ql], even a false-sense of familiarity is helpful; expressed a preference for RDQL or BRQL based on implementation
experience with the [RdfDB] family of designs.</li>
</ul>

<p>In response to comments about the connection between these design
and rules, DanC noted that the work of this Working Group might
usefully be informed by a W3C Workshop on rules, such as the the
Semantic Web Coordination Group has discussed from time to time.</p>


<h3 id="qrdesigns">Non-RDQL design centers: XQuery, Rules</h3>

<p><em>TomA and DaveB joined remotely.</em></p>

<p>HowardK gave brief live demo of <cite><a
href="http://www.fatdog.com/xsrql.html">XsRQL: an XQuery-style Query
Language for RDF</a></cite> and discussed implementation and
timeframes.  The <a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/14-dawg-irc">raw
irc log</a> captures a bit of the technical discussion.</p>

<p>DanC noted <a href= "http://www.w3.org/DesignIssues/N3QL.html"
>N3QL</a>'s motivation is integration with rules, diff, etc., to which
AndyS argued for a separation of functionality concerns from syntax
concerns. SimonR asked whether, if we have graph results, are we not
doing a (simple) rules language? DanC answered that yes, that's a
limited form of rule; more generally, horn clauses allow the body of
the rule to be a different shape from the head. AndyS added that rules
systems can include the feature of results feeding back into the
KB.</p>

<p><b>ACTION Simon+Kendall</b> elaborate the rel. of rules and
"construct" in the UC&amp;R doc.</p>

<p>RobS noted universals seem to have few precedents in extant
languages. e.g. "someone all of whose girlfriends are attractive" is
hard to express.</p>

<p>The relationship between OWL and rules came up in discussion; a
paper by Grosof and Horrocks, <cite><a href=
"http://www.cs.man.ac.uk/~horrocks/Publications/download/2003/p117-grosof.pdf"
>Description Logic Programs: Combining Logic Programs with Description
Logic</a></cite> was recommended by several WG members.</p>

<p>The group discussed a <tt>premise</tt> mechanism, such as discussed
in <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2004/06/29-Yoshio/DAWG-addenda040628.html" >a note
from YoshioF</a>. RobS noted that iTQL has a similar mechanism, called
<tt>given</tt>. EricP noted related features in Algae. <b>ACTION
EricP</b>: offer implementation experience (perhaps in use case form)
with premises and algae.  <em>done? <a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0247.html">annotea
use case</a></em></p>

<p><em>Then we broke for lunch and ad-hoc technical discussion.
The <a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/14-dawg-irc#T21-03-48">irc log
starting 21:03:48Z</a> includes a few notes.
</em></p>

<h3 id="req">Resolving pending requirements</h3>

<p>The group discussed requirement <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases#r3.6">3.6 Optional
Match</a>. A <a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0024.html">message from SimonR</a> advocating the requirement discharged his earlier action.</p>

<p>EricP reported mixed opinions from W3C's semantic web advanced
development group: TBL opposed, DanC worries about the time cost;
EricP has been persuaded it is needed. RobS argued against putting it
on the critical path as a requirement.  YoshioF noted the risk that if
we don't standardize it, the market will meet the need in incompatible
ways. DanC asked for new arguments that had not yet been discussed,
and there were none. Observing a critical mass in favor he put the
question and we <b id="res-optional-req">RESOLVED to adopt
requirement <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2001/sw/DataAccess/UseCases#r3.6" >3.6 Optional
Match</a> as phrased in version 1.123</b>, over the <b><a href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0104.html">objection of RobS of Network
Inference</a></b> and JosD's abstention.</p>

<p>Regarding "3.8 Bookmarkable Queries", DanC apologized for the
tardiness of his action and asked about moving it to an objective. A
strawpoll showed several in favor.  We subsequently <a
href="#res-addrqr-obj">adopted an amended version as an
objective</a>.</p>

<p>The group discussed "3.10 Result Limits". The synergy with sorting
was noted. After discussion of the implementation costs of sorting and
the trade-off between client and server compute power per user,
opinions differed on the merit and/or necessity of limits without
sorting. Library systems and other interactive systems were suggested
as supporting use cases, as were mobile scenarios.  AndyS suggested a
<a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg-comments/2004Jul/0000.html">public
comment from Chris Wilper</a> supports this requirement, as do
limitations of JDBC drivers. RobS reported experience with a 3+ tier
architecture where sorting and limits were handled outside the query
system. RobS remained unconvinced that limit was essential. DanC
raised the possibility of demoting it to an objective, but that was
not supported by a critical mass, so we <b id="res-limit-req">RESOLVED
to adopt requirement "3.10 Result Limits"</b> over the <b><a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0104.html"
>objection of RobS of Network Inference</a></b>.</p>

<p><b>ACTION: SimonR</b> draft a reply to Chris Wilper and send draft
to WG mailing list.</p>

<p>Regarding 3.11 Iterative Query, the editor was advised to remove it
until such time as more support becomes evident.</p>

<p>DanC noted that this exhausted the pending requirements and noted
that WG members would need to generate some support for new
requirements before they would be given time on group agendas.</p>

<h3 id="objs">Pending Objectives</h3>

<p>Discussion of 4.1 Human-friendly Syntax resulted in support for
addition of the word "easily", after which we <b>RESOLVED to adopt
objective 4.1 Human-friendly Syntax</b>.</p>

<p>The group discussed objective "4.2 Provenance". About 5 known
implementations were noted. EricP noted the importance of this feature
for building trust in social systems, and KendallC noted the value to
security applications. DanC asked if the research in KendallC's lab
showed diverse designs or common patters; KendallC replied that there
are a few different designs, but the most common one is quads. JosD
asked if the URI sufficed as a provenance mechanism and KendallC
answered positively.</p>

<p>RobS expressed a concern about defining provenance, that it might
go beyond the scope of this group. DanC concurred; it seems to be at
the edge of our scope.</p>

<p>AndyS clarified that the SOURCE mechanism in the BRQL spec is not
about provenance; it's about data management; Jena supports "remove
this model[i.e. graph]. replace with that model..."; a straightforward
next step is to offer that to the user in the query language.</p>

<p>SimonR reported that while iTQL supports quads, it is not used very
often, except for security applications.</p>

<p>A poll showed a continued critical mass of support, but not
consensus. The chair did not put the question, since discussion
continues to yield new arguments.</p>

<p><b>ACTION KendallC, AndyS</b>: write up a new wording of 4.2
Provenance that focuses on data management.</p>

<p>Discussion of "4.3 Non-existent Triples" showed that "in the
queried graph" would be a useful clarification.  DanC estimated that
this feature would be costly to specify; support remained above a
critical mass, and we <b>RESOLVED: "4.3 Non-existent Triples"
accepted as a design objective</b>; AndyS and Jos abstaining.</p>

<p>Discussion of "4.5 Aggregate Query" showed that various
members of the group understood it to mean different things.
<b>ACTION SimonR</b>: offer a replacement for 4.5 focussed on union query.</p>
<p>Discussion of "4.9 Boolean Results" suggested that it was overly
detailed for a design objective. We <b>RESOLVED to adopt as a
design objective "yes/no questions should be straightforward to
express"</b>, giving editor perhaps more than the usual license to
exercise editorial judgement.</p>

<p>Proponents of "4.4 User-specifiable Serialization" were
sufficiently confident that our design would satisfy them
that they didn't need it explicitly in the document.
<b>ACTION Kendall</b>: remove 4.4 User-specifiable Serialization
</p>

<p>In discussion of "4.8 Literal Search", the editor asked if what we
mean is really just string literals, and several answered yes. We
<b>RESOLVED to accept "4.8 Literal Search", clarified to refer to
string literals, as a design objective</b>, with EricP and RobS
abstaining.</p>

<h3 id="initdn2">Initial Design Positions, revisited</h3>

<p>DanC briefly introduced <cite><a
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL - A Query Language for
RDF</a></cite> and observed that it seemed to be consistent with input
from a critical mass of the working group regarding an initial
strawman design, and polled the group for support. RobS and JeffP of
Network Inference remained unconvinced that this was a useful
direction.</p>

<p><em>Then we went to dinner, hosted by Network Inference.</em></p>


<h3 id="usecase">New Use cases (ebXML registry, XQuery/RDF)</h3>

<p><b>ACTION Hendler</b>: work with Bijan to do some sort of UDDI/Web
services use case. CONTINUES from <a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004AprJun/0799.html">2004-06-29
telcon</a></p>

<p>We discussed <a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0032.html">ACTION:
write up ebXML registry UC</a>; there was considerable support for adding it. <b>ACTION Kendall</b>: add ebXML UC.</p>

<p>RobS noted that the use case discusses using stepwise query
refinement to navigate a concept hierarchy, and that perhaps
concept-hierarchy-browsing is a better technique in that case.
<b>ACTION: RobS</b> write email to Farrukh.</p>

<p>JeffP reported that he participates, along with FarrukhN, in the <a
href=
"http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/tc_home.php?wg_abbrev=regrep"
>OASIS regrep TC</a>, which is adapting their <a href=
"http://www.oasis-open.org/committees/regrep/documents/2.5/specs/ebrim-2.5.pdf"
>registry information model specification (PDF)</a> to use OWL.  JeffP
mailed the WG regarding some <a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0087.html">work
in progress on ebXML RegRep draft OWL to RIM mapping</a>.</p>

<p>EricP reported on some brainstorming on use cases relevant to
section <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2003/12/swa/dawg-charter#XQueryBinding">1.5
Relationship to XQuery</a> from the WG charter.  An example of using
RDF data in an XQuery system: querying the Edgar database and
integrating XML and RDF sources into the one query.</p>

<p>DanC asked, regarding XQuery/RDF query integration scenarios: is
loose coupling sufficient? is there motivation for anything more than
string concatenation to make up queries, and XML to return results?</p>

<p>Discussion explored various approaches without any particular
conclusion.</p>

<p><em>We then broke into two groups.</em></p>

<h3 id="brqlw">BRQL Walkthru break-out</h3>

<p>In one break-out room, the group reviewed <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL</a>, with AndyS noting
issues in the document (resulting in v1.11). Some members also took <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc#T18-09-53">IRC notes
starting 18:09:53Z</a>.</p>

<p><b>ACTION Jos</b>: explain log:includes to inform the discussion of
SOURCE (nee provenance)</p>

<p><b>ACTION AndyS</b>: explain DESCRIBE design implicit in BRQL spec.</p>

<p><b>ACTION DanC</b>: explain evolution of log:semantics/log:includes
from uri-is-graph to uri-is-doc in cwm, to inform discussion of
SOURCE</p>

<p><b>ACTION DaveB</b>: explain the main uses seen for redland
contexts with respect to the provenance</p>

<p>DanC asked what test coverage do we have; AndyS reported that for
RDQL, we have a test suite that is sufficiently complete to serve as a
guide for independent developers. For other BRQL features, test
development has only started; for example, a <a
href="http://jena.hpl.hp.com/~afs/DAWG/Tests/dawg-tests.n3">manifest
of a few BRQL tests</a>. <b>ACTION Jos</b>: discuss test suite
documentation and maintenance with SteveH, EricP, AndyS, ...</p>

<h3 id="xqfa">XQuery design exploration</h3>

<p>RobS, EricP, and SimonR explored XQuery designs in another break-out. When they returned, EricP briefly showed a <a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/16-FA/">report</a>, including two examples:</p>

<table border="1">
<tr><th>Description</th><th>RDQL</th><th>XQuery</th></tr>
<tr>
<td>vcard</td>
<td>
<pre class="query">SELECT ?family , ?given
WHERE  (?vcard  vcard:FN "Alice Antwerp")
       (?vcard  vcard:N  ?name)
       (?name   vcard:Family  ?family)
       (?name   vcard:Given  ?given)
USING  vcard FOR &lt;http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0#&gt;</pre>
</td>
<td>
<pre class="query">DECLARE ELEMENT NAMESPACE vcard = &lt;http://www.w3.org/2001/vcard-rdf/3.0#&gt;
FOR $vcard IN rdfNodes(),
    $name IN rdfNodes(),
    $family IN rdfNodes(),
    $given IN rdfNodes()
WHERE asserted($vcard  vcard:FN &quot;Alice Antwerp&quot;),
  AND asserted($vcard  vcard:N  $name),
  AND asserted($name   vcard:Family  $family),
  AND asserted($name   vcard:Given  $given)
RETURN &lt;p&gt;$family $given&lt;/p&gt;</pre>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td>selection on value</td>
<td>
<pre class="query">SELECT ?resource
WHERE (?resource info:age ?age)
AND ?age &gt;= 24
USING info FOR &lt;http://example.org/peopleInfo#&gt;</pre>
</td>
<td>
<pre class="query">DECLARE ELEMENT NAMESPACE info = &lt;http://example.org/peopleInfo#&gt;
FOR $resource IN rdfNodes(),
WHERE asserted($resource info:age $age)
  AND ?age &gt;= 24
RETURN &lt;foo&gt;$resource&lt;/foo&gt;</pre>
</td>
</tr>
</table>

<p>EricP and SimonR briefly presented an Abstract Model of Where Clause:</p>
<pre>
N is the set of RDF nodes.
$ is the set of variables.
Pos := N u $
C := Pos × Pos × Pos
Cexp := field(C, AND, OR) ... c1 AND c2 , c1 OR c2
B := $ × '=' × N
Bexp := field(B, AND, OR)
f(c &#x2208; C) -> b &#x2208; Bexp
</pre>


<h3 id="ucrpub">Toward updated Use Cases and Requirements publication</h3>

<p>DanC asked the editor for a publication target and KendallC
suggested 1 August. We reviewed pending suggested changes:</p>

<p><b id="res-addrqr-obj">RESOLVED: to adopt 4.X Addressable Query
Results as <a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0098.html">proposed
15July</a> as a design objective, SimonR abstaining.</b></p>

<p>We discussed <cite><a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0091.html">Proposed
XQuery requirement and/or objective</a></cite> without reaching
critical mass around any particular wording. <b>ACTION SimonR</b>:
write a document discussing tradeoffs with adapting XQuery as an RDF
query language for discussion thru the September meeting in Bristol.
Howard, among others, expressed interest in contributing.
</p>

<p>Following up on various indications of support for a disjuction
requirement, RobS offered <cite><a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0085.html"
>New requirement: disjunction</a></cite>. After a poll showed a
critical mass of support, we <b>RESOLVED to adopt as a requirement
"The query language must include the capability to restrict matches on
a queried graph based on a disjunction of graph patterns, at least one
of which must be satisfied."</b>, JosD abstaining. <b>ACTION RobS</b>:
help the editor find supporting use cases for disjuction.</p>

<p><b>ACTION KendallC</b>: draft revision, toward updating our public
WD, delivery ~next wed. <b>ACTION RobS</b>: review it.
<b>ACTION Howard</b>: to offer editorial feedback.
</p>

<h3 id="initdn3">Initial Design/Strawman query language</h3>

<p>DanC suggested that the lack of critical mass of support around any
particular XQuery-related objective, requirement, or design at this
point merited the attention of the Semantic Web Coordination
Group. <b>ACTION DanC</b>: notify Semantic Web CG of risks around the
"1.5 Relationship with XQuery" scope of our charter.</p>

<p>Candidates with a critical mass of support appear to be <a
href="http://www.w3.org/Submission/2004/SUBM-RDQL-20040109/">RDQL</a>
of 9 Jan 2004 and <a href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL</a>
v1.11. DanC advised the WG that starting with fewer, more mature
features was likely to help us go faster, but a poll showed more
support for BRQL than RDQL.</p>

<p>DanC observed that while we do not have consensus, we do have a
critical mass off support for BRQL, and discussion of alternatives at
this point does not seem to yield new arguments; further, selection of
a strawman at this point is important in order to stay on schedule. We
<b>RESOLVED to adopt <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL</a> v1.11 as our
strawman query language design</b>, over the <b><a href=
"http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-dawg/2004JulSep/0101.html"
>objection of RobS and JeffP of Network Inference</a></b>
and HowardK's abstention.</p>

<p>A brief review yielded a few more issues:</p>

<p><b>NEW ISSUE</b>: re CONSTRUCT: what happens when variable are not
bound?</p>

<p><b>NEW ISSUE</b>: BRQL 1.11 does not support yes/no queries sufficiently</p>

<p>YoshioF asked if we're going to have other strawmen, and DanC noted
that SimonR's action means we plan to discuss at least one other.</p>

<h3 id="protexp">Exploration of protocol designs</h3>

<p>We explored a few protocol designs: <a
href="http://tap.stanford.edu/tap/getdata.html">GetData</a> from the
TAP project, Joseki, cwm's definitiveService, and Tucana's RMI
experience. Notes from IRC <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc#T23-39-22" >starting
23:38:08Z</a> and continuing <a href=
"http://www.w3.org/2004/07/15-dawg-irc" >16Jul(UTC)</a> have some
details</p>


<p>We <b>RESOLVED to thank the host, Network Inference</b>, with
applause, and adjourned the meeting.</p>

</div>


<div>
<h2 id="rdl">Reading List</h2>

<p>Participants in the meeting are expected to be familiar
with the following documents:</p>

<ul>
  <li><a href="DesignEvaluations">Design Evaluations</a> v 1.14 or later</li>
  <li><a href="UseCases">Use Cases and Requirements</a> v1.119 or later</li>
  <li><a href="http://www.ecs.soton.ac.uk/~swh/TestSketchCases/">DAWG Query Sketch Test Cases</a> Version 0.3, 23-06-2004 or later</li>
</ul>

<p>Participants are invited to read:</p>

<ul>
<li><cite><a
  href="http://www.w3.org/2004/07/08-BRQL/">BRQL - A Query Language
  for RDF</a></cite> v1.9 of 9 July or later</li>
</ul>

<p>If you joined the WG recently, you may want to review <a
href="ftf1">records of the April meeting in Amsterdam.</a></p>

<div>
<h3>Presentation Materials and Meeting Records</h3>

<p>Presentation materials are part of the meeting record, and accessible
meeting records are important. An easy way to submit them to the record
without clogging up everybody's mailbox is to mail them to
<tt>www-archive@w3.org</tt> as attachments, then find them in the <a
href="http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-archive/">archive</a>, and send
a pointer to <tt>public-rdf-dawg@w3.org</tt>.</p>

<p>The <a
href="http://www.w3.org/2002/03/email_attachment_formats.html">guidelines for
email attachments</a> are relevant:</p>

<blockquote>
  <p>...avoid formats that are virus prone, proprietary or platform
  dependent. For example, whenever possible you should use HTML instead of MS
  Word, PowerPoint or PDF. (Ideally, use XHTML or HTML4.)</p>

  <p>If you must use a proprietary or platform-dependent format, please also
  include an alternate version in a universally readable format, such as HTML
  or plain text, if possible. If you cannot, then at least include a format
  that has widely available free viewers, if possible.</p>
</blockquote>

<p>If you use powerpoint, please give us the powerpoint sources plus a PDF
export plus some sort of text dump (RTF?).</p>
</div>

</div>

<div>
<h2 id="chlog">Change Log</h2>
<pre><!-- log goes on next line, not this one -->
$Log: ftf2.html,v $
Revision 1.37  2004/08/05 21:43:53  connolly
minutes no longer "in progress"; were approved 2004-07-20
spell-checked
linked thoughts from observers

Revision 1.36  2004/07/21 02:24:14  connolly
HowardK abstained from the strawman decision,
offered to help with SimonR's action,
and a few other tweaks.

Revision 1.35  2004/07/20 16:30:10  connolly
clarified RobS's ebXML action

Revision 1.34  2004/07/20 16:27:42  connolly
cited some objections
s/ericP/EricP/, s/robS/RobS/
fixed disjunction decision

Revision 1.33  2004/07/19 15:45:31  connolly
XQuery design doc targeted at Sep meeting near BRS

Revision 1.32  2004/07/19 14:20:39  connolly
fixed agenda/TOC link

Revision 1.31  2004/07/19 14:19:40  connolly
tail end of IRC notes recovered; typo fixed;
seeking clarity on ebXML action

Revision 1.30  2004/07/18 08:08:14  connolly
moved agenda to top, since it serves as TOC

Revision 1.29  2004/07/18 07:31:31  connolly
typo, table markup, distinctive title

Revision 1.28  2004/07/18 07:25:51  connolly
1st draft minutes done
decision markup tweaked

Revision 1.27  2004/07/18 06:08:15  connolly
minutes: objectives, strawman part 2

Revision 1.26  2004/07/18 05:30:00  connolly
minutes requirements item

Revision 1.25  2004/07/18 04:50:51  connolly
summarized item on XSRQL, rules

Revision 1.24  2004/07/18 04:28:03  connolly
summarized initial design positions agendum

Revision 1.23  2004/07/18 03:48:49  connolly
starting minutes. roll call done.

Revision 1.22  2004/07/17 15:44:32  connolly
cited IRC logs

Revision 1.21  2004/07/09 19:05:38  connolly
cited recent BRQL draft

Revision 1.20  2004/07/08 20:12:02  connolly
another link re the nifty image

Revision 1.19  2004/07/08 20:02:04  connolly
fixed telcon UTC time

Revision 1.18  2004/07/08 19:58:23  connolly
removed "in progress" from .sig

Revision 1.17  2004/07/08 19:56:57  connolly
shuffled agenda details a bit

Revision 1.16  2004/07/08 18:46:25  connolly
noted algae/rules extension

Revision 1.15  2004/07/08 18:38:12  connolly
cite swrl, N3QL

Revision 1.14  2004/07/08 17:47:58  connolly
moved phone info under venue; added IRC. refined Convene item

Revision 1.13  2004/07/08 17:39:06  connolly
telcon agenda time is no longer TBD, though it's still
subject to negotiation

Revision 1.12  2004/07/08 17:37:23  connolly
detailed agenda emerges

Revision 1.11  2004/07/08 16:30:53  connolly
finalizing goals, participants, etc.

Revision 1.10  2004/07/08 16:17:39  connolly
registration is closed

Revision 1.9  2004/07/08 16:12:07  connolly
telcon res link

Revision 1.8  2004/07/07 23:09:26  connolly
cwm bug persists; ftf2-formal is .n3 again

Revision 1.7  2004/07/07 22:57:37  connolly
cwm bug is fixed; ftf2-formal is now .rdf

Revision 1.6  2004/07/06 15:47:46  eric
f2t teleconf details

Revision 1.5  2004/07/01 22:41:40  connolly
(connolly) Changed through Jigsaw.

Revision 1.4  2004/06/28 15:43:36  connolly
updated evaluations w.r.t. KC's summary

Revision 1.3  2004/06/28 15:36:20  connolly
collecting evaluations

Revision 1.2  2004/06/18 22:10:17  connolly
link to "toward intial design..." thread

Revision 1.1  2004/06/18 22:05:52  connolly
first draft of ftf2 materials</pre>
</div>
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