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  <h1>Social Web Incubator Group Teleconference</h1>

  <h2>08 Jul 2009</h2>

  <p><a href=  
  'http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/weekly-agenda.html'>Agenda</a></p>

  <p>See also: <a href="http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-irc">IRC
  log</a></p>

  <h2><a name="at tendees" id="attendees">Attendees</a></h2>

  <div class="intro">
    <dl>
      <dt>Present</dt>
    
      <dd>Zakim error</dd>

      <dt>Regrets</dt>

      <dd>Tim_Anglade, Hakan, Cloud</dd>

      <dt>Chair</dt> <dd>DKA</dd>

      <dt>Scribe</dt>

      <dd>Adam Boyet</dd>
    </dl>
  </div>

  <h2>Contents</h2>

  <ul>
    <li><a href="#agenda">Topics</a></li>

    <li><a href="#ActionSummary">Summary of Action Items</a></li>
  </ul>
  <hr />

  <div class="meeting">
    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='phone'>&nbsp;</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Date: 08 July
    2009</p>

  

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to
    approve SWXG WG Weekly -- 8 July 2009 as a true record</p>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-swxg-minutes.html">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/01-swxg-minutes.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; RESOLVED: SWXG WG
    Weekly approved 8 July 2009 as a true record</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; Could everybody on
    the call please mute when not talking</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; PROPOSED: to meet
    again Wed, 15th July</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AndreaP</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'>+1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; danbri -can you
    scribe?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; DKA will chair next
    week.</p>

    <p class='phone'>dka to chair next week</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 2. General
    Organization and Task Forces</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; hi</p>

    <p class='phone'>hhalpin thought would be interesting to look
    at the social group wiki</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuestSummaries">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuestSummaries</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; hhalpin: thought
    would be interesting to look at the social group wiki</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>scribe:</cite> to look at summaries of
    invited guests<br />
    ... to see if someone would volunteer to summarize talk from
    last week</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; volunteer??</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; i can</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Mischa, you'd be
    perfect!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; mmm</p><a name=
    "action01" id="action01"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to summarize josh and soren't
    talk [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-51
    - Summarize josh and soren't talk [on Mischa Tuffield - due
    2009-07-15].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 3. User stories</p>

  
    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> to summarize the invited
    guests in the wiki for future references</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Go for it
    Mischa!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> will hopefully complete
    by next week</p>


    <p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> talked with josh about
    running terms through plagerism software</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; that would be
    GREAT!!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>rreck</cite>&gt; great idea to track
    changes on the terms and conditions</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> and put them in version
    control and see how all the T&amp;Cs change over time</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; sounds like it
    could be interesting to see the results of that.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> great idea, would be
    interesting to share on the final report</p><a name="action02"
    id="action02"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Sören to
    propose addition to the template for user stories for
    conditions [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> soren and cprey exchanged
    emails on conditions of user stories<br />
    ... he sent draft and exchanged comments over the weekend</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> working on a final
    version</p><a name="action03" id="action03"></a>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> tobey in luck with
    microblogging document tracking sources story</p><a name=
    "action04" id="action04"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[DONE]</strong> tinkster to
    document developer stories on wiki. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>toby:</cite> shares link to tracking
    sources</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 4. Invited Guest
    Invitations</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; tobyink, thanks for
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Tracking_Sources">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/UserStories#Tracking_Sources</a>
    !</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> update on invited guests
    ... would attempt to illicit input from mobile operator ... Sam
    ??? to come on july 22nd to answer a few questions</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; looks good to me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I think July 22nd
    works for Sam Crichtley</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Critchley</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> introduce to his service
    and mention how he would like to see this evolve<br />
    ... from gypsey</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>samcritchley</cite>&gt; Yes, that's
    me</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>samcritchley</cite>&gt; :-)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; hello sam!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Your on for the
    July 22nd.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>samcritchley</cite>&gt; Hi!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> will change web page to
    the 22nd</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Send us any links
    you want us to read ahead of time.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>samcritchley</cite>&gt; Will do</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> reaching out to geo location
    working group and somebody from oslo companies with relation to
    the location sharing<br />
    ... probably be good for the next call</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; re geolocation:
    <a href=
    "http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pling/2009Jul/0005.html">
    http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pling/2009Jul/0005.html</a>
    ... note the last call doc to review</p><a name="action05" id=
    "action05"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to describe/implement a git
    repo of terms and conditions, and how they change between now
    and the end of the XG. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-52
    - Describe/implement a git repo of terms and conditions, and
    how they change between now and the end of the XG. [on Mischa
    Tuffield - due 2009-07-15].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> 15th is open for a
    speaker</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ACTION
    <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> : hhalpin to contact eran to talk,
    also about LRDD and XRDS-Simple</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> have sent email to Aron
    about LRDD</p><a name="action06" id="action06"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> hhalpin
    to contact eran to talk, also about LRDD and XRDS-Simple
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I've updated the
    schedule to show that Sam will speak on July 22 <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule</a></p><a name="action07"
    id="action07"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> danbri to
    find someone from Opera to talk Widgets [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]</p><a name="action08"
    id="action08"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> danbri
    and karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging
    and W3C. [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]</p><a name="action09"
    id="action09"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> Renato
    and DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]</p><a name="action10"
    id="action10"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> <strong>[CONTINUES]</strong> DKA to
    invite Lars or Eric from Geolocation API to W3C Social Web XG
    for context comm call [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> will ping people</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; ack</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA2</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.alpsp.org/ngen_public/article.asp?aid=73515">http://www.alpsp.org/ngen_public/article.asp?aid=73515</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>PhilA:</cite> at conference with people
    talking about mobile web and other speakers that talked alot
    about social networking at a marketing tool</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA2</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://thewayoftheweb.net/">http://thewayoftheweb.net/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.absoluteradio.co.uk/">http://www.absoluteradio.co.uk/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>PhilA:</cite> shares page to Dan
    Thorton, works for radio</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA2</cite>&gt; Ros Lawler <a href=
    "http://econsultancy.com/blog/2172-random-house-s-ros-lawler-on-widgets-and-web-2-0">
    http://econsultancy.com/blog/2172-random-house-s-ros-lawler-on-widgets-and-web-2-0</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>PhilA:</cite> another speaker that stood
    out, see shared link<br />
    ... either would be interesting to have as invited speaker with
    regard to well funded agencies are doing with social
    networking</p><a name="action11" id="action11"></a><p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;//www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action12</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; see <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/InvitedGuests</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule">http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Schedule</a></p><a name="action13"
    id="action13"></a>


    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA2</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> PhilA to invite Ros lawler and/or Dan
    Thornton to tallk about marketing through social media
    [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action15">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action15</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 5. Business of
    Social Networks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; DKA</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Dan???</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> cprey can you help share
    your thoughts about work to do around business side ? .... part
    of the work from the group needs to inform the community about
    the benefits about the open social web ecosystem<br />
    ... as apposed to the wall garden approach<br />
    ... that was my thinking</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> dka recapped it very well
    ... wants work from group to have impact in a business
    context</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; cprey: is this the
    type of thing that is needed? <a href=
    "http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed">
    http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> would like to describe
    some scenarios how a open social web could come about and in
    what ways could it be beneficial to the bottom line</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>oshani</cite>&gt; not sure if this is
    really relevant -- but I see some interesting business related
    user stories here : <a href=
    "http://www.primelife.eu/images/stories/deliverables/h5.1.1-policy_requirements-public.pdf">
    http://www.primelife.eu/images/stories/deliverables/h5.1.1-policy_requirements-public.pdf</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> would benefit by hearing
    more from businesses on their concerns ... in what areas do
    businesses wish to see more standardization<br />
    ... communication would be best to go both ways, us to listen
    to them</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> mentioned the idea of
    sharing the location information between mobile startups<br />
    ... have somebody speak about how they're extending xmpp but at
    a business level if the ceo's got together and said it would be
    beneficial for them to share location information<br />
    ... its an interesting overlap of both business and
    technology</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/">http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    ask about oslo biz story</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; OSLO are a pretty
    mysterious bunch.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; OSLO: <a href=
    "http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/27/oslo-aims-to-break-down-mobile-social-network-barriers/">
    http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/02/27/oslo-aims-to-break-down-mobile-social-network-barriers/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; so it's these guys,
    with xmpp etc? - <a href=
    "http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/wiki/TechnologyChoices">
    http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/wiki/TechnologyChoices</a>
    <a href=
    "http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/">http://code.google.com/p/oslo-protocol/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> one thing that could be
    missing from the use cases whats the best way to do data
    portability from a business perspective</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>samcritchley</cite>&gt; I think
    Aka-aki and Nulaz are in OSLO</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; yes, I can confirm
    that</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>samcritchley</cite>&gt; couple of
    others too</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://download.aka-aki.com/press/mitteilungen/EN/02232009_oslo_alliance.pdf">
    http://download.aka-aki.com/press/mitteilungen/EN/02232009_oslo_alliance.pdf</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> to keep our work
    grounded to the businesses</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/">http://www.socialtimes.com/2009/06/social-data-cloud/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> there some mentions of
    the big social webs are sharing information</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> think its good to look
    at little companies as well as the big companies ... activity
    can happen a lot faster typically at the smaller companies</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>DKA</cite>&gt; +1 to the importance of
    the "little companies."</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; re opensocial and
    w3c, see recent Wookie/Widgets proposal in the Apache
    Foundation - <a href=
    "http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser">
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mattroweshow</cite>&gt; +1 for the
    longtail</p><a name="action16" id="action16"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri circulate wookie proposal to
    the xg [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action16">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action16</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-53
    - Circulate wookie proposal to the xg [on Dan Brickley - due
    2009-07-15].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> from a w3c perspective
    want to make it easier to share data</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 7. # Portability
    Task Force</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; 7. Portability Task
    Force</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF">
    http://www.w3.org/2005/Incubator/socialweb/wiki/Portability_Architecture_TF</a></p>

    <p class='phone'>??: ought to be clear if charter says not
    about creating new technology</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Here's this
    sentence from the charter: "Our goal is to provide a forum
    through which collaborations relating to social web standards
    can be formed, and through which the results of practical
    standards-oriented collaborations can be reported and
    discussed."</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> think we should not
    invent new protocols, was my idea from the start</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; Adam jsalvachua ==
    petef</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> w3c isn't necessarily
    about implementing new protocols</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> charter is written in
    that way to share that the group wasn't necessarily about
    creating something new</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; The task force
    could always identify areas where it thinks new protocols are
    needed, and then people from the TF could work outside the TF
    and XG to create protocols that fit into those gaps.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; We can't prevent
    people from informally making things :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; In fact, we want to
    informally for people to get together!!!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> if members of the group
    want to get together and invent things thats fine but be clear
    of what your doing and be transparent regarding patent
    policy</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> how can we start?
    with a statement of whats out there right now?<br />
    ... to talk about new combinations</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>petef:</cite> thats sounds good</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> ok, petef and I
    should start talking about this after summer when people are
    more available</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> agree with overall sense
    of things<br />
    ... but would like more detail ... would be great if this group
    was able to generate excitement about making portability and a
    practical plan to approach portability</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; danbri - what's
    FOAF's role in this?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> would like to have
    some sort of proof of concept of the ideas they are
    developing</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; yes</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mattroweshow</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I would also like
    to see mappings between OpenSocial, XFN, vCard, and
    PortableContacts to FOAF.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; With XML-based
    formats, done via GRDDL.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; I don't want to draw
    away from the useful discussion on data portability, but can we
    have a section in this Task Force which explains what might be
    business benefits of data portability?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> have something that
    guides people with OpenSocial, FOAF etc</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; aside - <a href=
    "http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/interview_with_tim_berners-lee_part_1.php">
    http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/interview_with_tim_berners-lee_part_1.php</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Might need Python
    to sort of move contacts in various formats.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>AlexPassant</cite>&gt; what about
    mattroweshow work on mappings for social vocabularies ?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; i now more a
    ruby guy :)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; I'm still in the
    dark ages of python or perl!</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> would like to learn what
    the business benefits to the open data portability<br />
    ... maybe charging people when importing / exporting data</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; hmm <a href=
    "http://wiki.dataportability.org/display/dpmain/Business+Case">http://wiki.dataportability.org/display/dpmain/Business+Case</a>
    looks a bit work-in-progress</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; Business case: if
    you enable import of contacts from other sites, then it lowers
    the barrier to entry for new people signing up at your site,
    hence get more users, hence get more advertising revenue.</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> one case might be to
    have your smaller social site wanting to market about kite
    flying and them using information from Facebook .. have an open
    format for exchanging that data</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; and if you allow
    export of data you encourage users to try your service without
    fear of lockin or wasted effort</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Thanks for the link
    DanBri!! very confirming</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; biz case of being
    able to accept open data formats is fairly no-brainer; biz case
    of unlocking user data is tougher ...</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; of my suspicions</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; It would be nice if
    these use-cases found their way into the use-case stories on
    the wiki - anyone up for that?</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>bblfish:</cite> if social networks want
    to start selling services to companies, the companies
    themselves need to be able to control their data<br />
    ... and link to other sites that control their data</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; there are about 100+
    companies who are already in teh business of business social
    networks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://eliasbizannes.com/blog/2009/04/data-portability-and-media-explaining-the-business-case/">
    http://eliasbizannes.com/blog/2009/04/data-portability-and-media-explaining-the-business-case/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; they are not
    interested in companies being able to export their
    data/leave</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; so my point was
    summarised here: <a href=
    "http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed">
    http://blogs.sun.com/bblfish/entry/business_model_for_open_distributed</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; federated
    directories?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; adam: we've been
    talking mostly about use-cases involving marketing</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; adam: but how about
    enterprise management</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; adam: when we want
    to have our corporate social network reach out to others on
    another corporate social network</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; adam: when we have
    some agreement</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; do not have
    documented case (user story) covering how enterprises can
    benefit from data portability</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; adam: but we have
    to respect privacy and security of this data.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; he's our scribe
    today!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; DKA: really likes
    adam's story</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>jsalvachua</cite>&gt; i have a real
    use case on this that we may have to implement, i will try to
    write it.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Boeing's internal
    stuff is really neat!</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; yep</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; cool</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; does Sun have
    similar story/use case?</p><a name="action17" id=
    "action17"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> adam to write up the boeing use case
    for enterprise social networks [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action17">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action17</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-54
    - Write up the boeing use case for enterprise social networks
    [on Adam Boyet - due 2009-07-15].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; yes, sun has
    similar use cases</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; emphasize CROSS
    enterprise</p><a name="action18" id="action18"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to write up the social network
    data exchange story [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action18">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action18</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-55
    - Write up the social network data exchange story [on Harry
    Halpin - due 2009-07-15].</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> have a story for two
    companies to collaborate<br />
    ... will try to expand on the use case</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>bblfish</cite>&gt; well it's not just
    cross enterprise, there is also enterprise-individual,
    enterprise-government, enterprise-university, inter university,
    and all possible combinations :-)</p><a name="action19" id=
    "action19"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> jsalvachua to write up business
    use-case with the company he's been working with. [recorded in
    <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action19">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action19</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Sorry, couldn't
    find user - jsalvachua</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; ack me?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>Zakim</cite>&gt; danbri, you wanted to
    discuss "code visits data vs data visits code" opensocial
    pitch</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> wants to talk about
    distinction google made when rolling out OpenSocial</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; tinkster - want to
    write up the marketing use-case for the use-case document?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; hhalpin: as in
    this? "Business case: if you enable import of contacts from
    other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new people
    signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get more
    advertising revenue."</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> prior to those apis, a
    lot of people thought about letting the data go .... google
    said what about the data staying where it is such that a widget
    stays where the data is and runs in a controlled
    environment</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Yes, just add that
    to the use-case story wiki</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> from businesses
    perspective, its not just about freeing the data or keeping the
    data but a little bit of both</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; ACTION Toby to add
    user story along lines of... if you enable import of contacts
    from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry for new
    people signing up at your site, hence get more users, hence get
    more advertising revenue.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-56
    - Add user story along lines of... if you enable import of
    contacts from other sites, then it lowers the barrier to entry
    for new people signing up at your site, hence get more users,
    hence get more advertising revenue. [on Toby Inkster - due
    2009-07-15].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; that's the question:
    why would you ever want to free up this data?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>petef</cite>&gt; clap, clap</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dandbri:</cite> there are 2 widget
    platforms: w3c widget, other is OpenSocial<br />
    ... there is a new one in the Apache space called wookie trying
    to bridge the two</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; echo
    ....</p><a name="action20" id="action20"></a>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt;
    <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to write up widget business
    tory [recorded in <a href=
    "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action20">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action20</a>]</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>trackbot</cite>&gt; Created ACTION-57
    - Write up widget business tory [on Dan Brickley - due
    2009-07-15].</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; see <a href=
    "http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser">
    http://mail-archives.apache.org/mod_mbox/incubator-general/200907.mbox/browser</a>
    for wookie proposal - w3c widgets meet opensoccial widgets</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> any other talk about
    portability</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; re widgets and biz,
    maybe i can mention - <a href=
    "http://www.slideshare.net/danbri/introducing-joost-widgets-2007-talk-presentation">
    http://www.slideshare.net/danbri/introducing-joost-widgets-2007-talk-presentation</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> question about people
    contacting somebody at facebook regarding privacy</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; Chris Kelly, Chief
    Privacy officer</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>mischat:</cite> might be able to poke a
    contact there if have more information about what we would like
    to ask of him<br />
    ... to have more context when contacting him</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; maybe an email
    Q&amp;A is best for him, initially?</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; that's what I would
    like (suggested)</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; agreed</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mattroweshow</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; My feeling is that
    we want to have him to talk to us at some point, but we can
    probably only do that once so we need to have our questions
    ready :)</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>danbri:</cite> maybe a Q&amp;A
    interaction as a good first step</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> any updates on the
    facebook privacy</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> don't have much more
    detail other then articles shared<br />
    ... some people on both sides of the privacy fence</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; i dont know
    anything about it,</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mattroweshow</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/the_day_facebook_changed_messages_to_become_pulic.php">
    http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/the_day_facebook_changed_messages_to_become_pulic.php</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>cprey:</cite> don't know enough about
    the policy part, leave that to the experts</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> received some mix reaction
    when shared it internally</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.scribd.com/doc/17010802/Facebook-Privacy-Presentation-July-1-2009">
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/17010802/Facebook-Privacy-Presentation-July-1-2009</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>caribou</cite>&gt; it's about audience
    segregation, mainly</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/01/the-looming-facebook-privacy-fiasco/">
    http://www.techcrunch.com/2009/07/01/the-looming-facebook-privacy-fiasco/</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA2</cite>&gt; +1 to DKA</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> you do get much segregation
    even within the same country</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; q*</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; ( many privacy
    issues are highly counterintuitive - teenagers don't know about
    probability and de-anonymising data )</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> in terms of what to ask
    privacy officer of facebook, bouncing some ideas from what came
    out of the privacy jungle discussion</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; also some ideas from
    the C Petersen paper</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>dka:</cite> why are social networks
    de-empasizing privacy</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>tinkster</cite>&gt; Privacy/Policy
    Commons would really help here. Creative Commons makes
    licensing really easy to understand: you can do this, you can't
    do that. We need the same easy at-a-glance system for
    privacy.</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>melvster</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf">http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>cperey</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf">http://etc.cpeterson.org/documents/2009/savingface.pdf</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/10/22/putting_privacy.html">
    http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/2008/10/22/putting_privacy.html</a></p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>danbri</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.fcw.com/Articles/2009/02/19/GSA-survey.aspx">http://www.fcw.com/Articles/2009/02/19/GSA-survey.aspx</a>
    looks relevant but i don't know those folks</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>mischat</cite>&gt; +1</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>PhilA2</cite>&gt; I spoke to one very
    influential person in the online safety world recently who felt
    that it would be human rights people, not children's advocates,
    who would kill LBS</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>karl</cite>&gt; <a href=
    "http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/privacy/">http://www.zephoria.org/thoughts/archives/privacy/</a></p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>hhalpin:</cite> do the portabilty group
    want to have a task force meeting regarding getting some of
    this together</p>

    <p class='phone'><cite>jsalvachua:</cite> probably start later
    when the points are more clear</p>

    <p class='irc'>&lt;<cite>hhalpin</cite>&gt; Meeting
    adjourned</p>

  </div>

  <h2><a name="ActionSummary" id="ActionSummary">Summary of Action
  Items</a></h2><!-- Action Items -->
  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> adam to write up
  the boeing use case for enterprise social networks [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action17">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action17</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri circulate
  wookie proposal to the xg [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action16">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action16</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to write
  up widget business tory [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action20">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action20</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to write
  up the social network data exchange story [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action18">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action18</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> jsalvachua to
  write up business use-case with the company he's been working
  with. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action19">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action19</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to
  describe/implement a git repo of terms and conditions, and how
  they change between now and the end of the XG. [recorded in
  <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action05">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action05</a>]<br />

  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Mischa to
  summarize josh and soren't talk [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action01">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action01</a>]<br />


  <strong>[NEW]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> PhilA to invite
  Ros lawler and/or Dan Thornton to tallk about marketing through
  social media [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action15">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action15</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri and
  karl to contact Evan of identi.ca over OpenMicroblogging and W3C.
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action08">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action08</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> danbri to
  find someone from Opera to talk Widgets [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action07">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action07</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> DKA to invite
  Lars or Eric from Geolocation API to W3C Social Web XG for
  context comm call [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action10">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action10</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> hhalpin to
  contact eran to talk, also about LRDD and XRDS-Simple [recorded
  in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action06">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action06</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Renato and
  DanBri and hhalpin to schedule DataPortability.org/XMPP [recorded
  in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action09">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action09</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> Sören to
  propose addition to the template for user stories for conditions
  [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action02">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action02</a>]<br />

  <strong>[PENDING]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to
  document developer stories on wiki. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action03">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action03</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  <strong>[DONE]</strong> <strong>ACTION:</strong> tinkster to
  document developer stories on wiki. [recorded in <a href=
  "http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action04">http://www.w3.org/2009/07/08-swxg-minutes.html#action04</a>]<br />

  &nbsp;<br />
  [End of minutes]<br />
  <hr />

  <address>
    Minutes formatted by David Booth's <a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/scribedoc.htm">
    scribe.perl</a> version 1.135 (<a href=
    "http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/2002/scribe/">CVS log</a>)<br />
    $Date: 2009/07/14 16:04:20 $
  </address>


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